Brammo Empulse: electric parity

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This is the Brammo Empulse, it’s going to turn the electric/Internal
Combustion Engine paradigm on its head, forever altering the
transportation landscape in America. That’s a bold statement, right?
Check this out: with tax breaks it’s $500 cheaper than an SV650 and has a
superior torque-to-weight ratio. It’ll reach speeds in excess of 100mph
and can travel over 100 miles between charges. Did we mention they plan
to race it at Laguna Seca? >

For the last couple of years, we’ve been watching electric bikes, amazed at the rate of progress. Products like the Brammo Enertia and Zero DS would make cool additions to a well-heeled enthusiast’s multi-bike garage. But, one question always lingered: When will electrics be competitive with ICE bikes? The Empulse answers that question, the answer is “now.”

A development of ideas originally seen on last year’s Brammo Enertia TTR race bikes, the Empulse uses a liquid-cooled AC Synchronous motor as a stressed member in a huge aluminum beam frame with a tubular steal swingarm that actually pivots on the motor housing.

That motor puts out 55bhp and 59 lb-ft of torque which needs to power a bike that weighs just 390lbs ready-to-ride. That gives it a power-to-weight ratio of .141 hp/lbs and a torque-to-weight ratio of .151 lb-ft/lbs. Compare those number to the SV650′s .167 hp/lbs and .109 lb-ft/lbs and you’ll see that the Brammo is slightly behind on power-to-weight and slightly ahead on torque-to-weight.

But the traditional bugbear of electric vehicles hasn’t necessarily been performance, but instead a very limited range. The Empulse will come with three different battery packs at three different price points:

Empulse 6.0: 6kWh, 60-mile average range, $9,995.

Empulse 8.0: 8kWh, 80-mile average range, $11,995.

Empulse 10.0: 10kWh, 100-mile average range, $13,995.

All three models are capable of achieving at least 100mph.

We spoke to Brammo CEO Craig Bramscher about those figures and how realistic they’ll be for the average rider. He told us that the range figures have been calculated using an even mix of highway and city-speed riding. Stick to lower speeds and the maximum range for the 10.0 will be more like 130+ miles, cruise at high speed on the highway and expect more like 60-70 miles.

The bad news here is going to be recharge times. With the Empulse 10.0 and a 110v outlet, expect to be charging overnight. There’s currently no official word on recharge times.

Because of the significant tax breaks available for electric vehicles from both state and federal governments, the end cost of the Empulse 10.0, the most expensive model in the range, could be as low as $7,000. Consult your local EV dealer to see what tax breaks are like where you live.

The exciting thing about these bikes isn’t necessarily the outright performance level, but rather the price-to-energy density ratio. Batteries remain the single most expensive component of any electric motorcycle, but Brammo’s found a way to significantly reduce their cost.

Compare the Empulse 6.0′s 6kWh battery pack to the identically priced Zero DS’s 4kWh  capacity.

Bramscher is a little tight-lipped when discussing this solution, “Our development in racing had us with the highest energy density batteries we believe at TTXGP last year and that led us to develop our own batteries with chemistry to specification and our complete drivetrain solution has allowed us to carefully manage the temperature, balancing and life of the batteries. We are not going into too much detail as it is competitive advantage until it ships.”

The rest of the motorcycle is surprisingly conventional. That huge extruded aluminum frame connects the swingarm pivot to the headstock and supports the batter packs. Front suspension is upside down forks holding radial Nissin brake calipers and there’s a full-adjustable rear shock. Brammo chose to go for a streetfighter-inspired look with the Empulse as most riders will be using them in urban environments. While this pre-production model has clip-ons, they’ll likely be optional on the production bike with taller handlebars standard.

The Empulse isn’t scheduled to go on-sale until early next year, so what you see here will be changing a bit.

“That headlight is borrowed from a Yamaha MT-03, but will not be used for production as we are developing our own unit that is not ready yet, says Brammo’s designer Brian Wismann. “The seat is a bit too wide and the tank a bit too narrow right now, so I’ll be playing with that proportion a bit as well as we move towards production.”

That swoopy seat unit is likely to be the most controversial element on the bike, adopting a vastly different look from the current sportsbike norm.

“Basically, I just wanted the design to be honest, says Wismann. “It’s not the fastest thing on the road, but it is really fun to ride and is plenty fast to get yourself into trouble.

“Check out the passenger seat on every BMW S1000RR and you’ll see a scuff mark cause they made the thing so high it’s impossible to swing your leg over without scuffing up the seat. Since the Empulse is more in the flavor of a streetfighter or modern café racer and less so a ‘race replica’, I thought I’d try something a bit different.”

Also likely to change is the tubular steel swingarm, which will probably go aluminum for production, and the final spec of the rear shock has yet to be decided. These tire sizes, 120/70-17 (front) and 180/55-17 (rear) will be retained, giving Empulse buyers the widest possible range of tires to choose from.

It’s Brian you see riding the bike in these pictures. He says that, even with a pre-production motor putting out only 40bhp, “the bike has no problem reaching 100mph.

“The Empulse proves that electric motorcycles are viable today as an exciting alternative to internal combustion vehicles,” the designer continues. “It also proves that this market can offer products at competitive price points as well rather than just $40-70,000 toys for the rich. Anyone who wants to experience a performance electric motorcycle now has a legitimate option.”

Brammo plans to unveil the Empulse to the public at Laguna Seca on MotoGP weekend where a version of it will race against Michael Czysz and the MotoCzysz E1pc.

  • http://blackrebelmoto.blogspot.com/ R13

    100 mph and 100 mile range. Sounds like Brammo finally pulled it off. Now what is everyone gonna complain about?

    • Oscar

      What’s everyone going to complain about now?

      How about the fact it can only travel 100 miles on a charge (unlike an ICE bike, which can travel up to 200 miles)? How about they fact that when it runs out of juice, it still requires hours to charge (unlike an ICE bike which requires 5 minutes)? How about the fact that it costs $14,000, and yet still can’t qualify as an only bike for someone who uses his bike for anything longer than a 100 mile round trip?

      So, it costs less than an SV 650 after tax rebates? That makes it competitive?

      A product that requires the government to take money by force from people who have no interest in the product and hand it to people who do in order to make the product competitive is, by definition, not competitive.

      • http://www.brammofan.com Brammofan

        “A product that requires the government to take money by force from people who have no interest in the product and hand it to people who do in order to make the product competitive is, by definition, not competitive.” Right ON, Oscar!! This is what I try to tell the government every year! I send my kid to private school and have no interest in funding public schools. The education they provide doesn’t compete with the education my kid gets. Screw ‘em.

        Oh… and if you seriously want to end taxpayer subsidies, let’s cut off the oil companies first, okay? The amounts they receive make the EV credits pale in comparison.

        • eric

          While I may not agree with all of your points above brammofan, the point about oil company subsidies is dead-on. People should really wake up about this. We’ve been subsidizing a mature industry for decades; why? I’ll tell you why; they’re smart, and well-connected. Until we pull the plug on the congressional kickbacks, etc, we’ll never see electrics on an equal footing. Everyone needs to keep in mind that Brammo, Zero, and the others are building workable machines WITHOUT the subsidies & bailout money we’ve been giving to the oil companines, banks, and ICE carmakers.

          Just imagine how fast they’d move forward with some real help from government money for additional research & development…

        • Oscar

          @Brammofan

          “I send my kid to private school and have no interest in funding public schools. The education they provide doesn’t compete with the education my kid gets. Screw ‘em.”

          Precicely. Why should you be forced to pay for a service you don’t use?

          “Oh… and if you seriously want to end taxpayer subsidies, let’s cut off the oil companies first, okay?”

          Absolutely. I oppose all government subsidies for private enterprise.

          • http://www.thisblueheaven.com Mark D.

            RON PAUL! Because F*ck poor people, they’re better off not knowing how to read.

            • Oscar

              @MarkD

              1: Show where I’ve mentioned Ron Paul.

              2: I give over 20% of my income to charity, including educational charity. I do’t like the government puting a gun to my head to pay for an education system that spends more per student than any other system on earth, yet gets worse results than 25 other countries.

              3: Nice try at obfuscation, but perhaps you’d like to explain how forcing me to pay for a motorcycle I don’t want and will never own so Brammoan can ride it is fair, just or moral.

            • http://www.brammofan.com Brammofan

              I was going to reply, but you said it more eloquently than I could.
              We are forced to pay subsidies for services we don’t use because this is a country, not a land mass filled with individuals who have no need for each other.
              Oscar – when was the last time you used an army to defend the lot your house sits on? Never. Yet you’re forced to pay for the nation’s defense.
              When was the last time you drove on a highway in a state you’ve never visited? Never. Yet you’re forced to pay for a national highway system. When was the last time you swam in the Gulf of Mexico? (Can’t answer this one for you) but you’ll end up paying for part of this disaster, too. Your taxes (assuming you pay them) will go, in part, to cover the cost that BP doesn’t cover.
              I could go on and on about things we have to pay for even if we don’t use/agree/like them, but I won’t.
              My point is this: we can’t continue to go the I.C.E. route indefinitely. Our planet and its inhabitants can’t pay the price. That’s why the federal government and some states (but not mine), pay subsidies to companies that are bearing the burden of developing the newer technologies that will, hopefully, allow us to get from point A to point B in the future without relying on engines that pollute the air and that are fueled by oil we have to buy from countries that aren’t necessarily our friends.

              We pay taxes that go to the government to divvy up because we’re a democracy. If you don’t like the way it’s getting divvied up, then fine — work on a political solution to that. Or move to Grumpymanistan where you only have to pay for stuff you want and every day begins with a golden sunrise and a rainbow.

              Now, I know you’re probably going to say something about dirty coal powered electric plants next. I’m ready for that one, too.

              • Oscar

                @Brammofan

                Again, good try at obfuscation, but you still haven’t explained why forcing me to pay for a motorcycle I don’t want and will never ride so that you can ride it is fair, just or moral.

              • Oscar

                @Brammofan

                Also, your examples don’t remotely support your argument.

                1: When have I ever used an interstate on which I’ve never driven? Every day. Goods and services that I use travel on those interstantes.

                2: When have I used the military to defend me? Every day. The US military defends each and every American.

                3: As for the oil spill, I use petroleum products every day, therefore I have a steak in it.

                If you want to own a Brammo, go ahead and buy one. I don’t care, as long as you don’t force me to pay for it.

                • http://www.brammofan.com Brammofan

                  Oscar, I’m definitely not going to force you to pay for my Enertia – I won it, didn’t buy it, so I’m not applying for any tax credit at all. Additionally, Brammo isn’t forcing you to to pay for its bikes as it is not even eligible for the low interest loans or grants available to 3 and 4-wheel EV companies like Aptera, Fisker, and Tesla. Not yet, anyway. Meanwhile, your taxes went to fund the auto bailout, the financial system bailout, etc….

                  Anyway, now I’m not even sure what point we were disputing. Oh yeah, tax credits to buyers of electric vehicles. Is there anything else the government forces you to pay for that you want to change… or is it just EVs and public schools?

                  Oh, and can we have a moment of silence for Oily Pelican? So sad. :(

                • Oscar

                  @Brammofan

                  “Is there anything else the government forces you to pay for that you want to change… or is it just EVs and public schools?”

                  Are you incapable of reading comprehension or just not trying?

                  I already stated: “I oppose all subsidies for private enterprise”.

                  In case you STILL don’t understand: I oppose auto bail outs. I oppose financial bail outs. I oppose petroleum subsidies. I oppose ethanol subsidies. I OPPOSE ALL SUBSIDIES FOR PRIVATE ENTERPRISE. If you still don’t understand, I can’t help you.

                  Furthermore, I never said I oppose funding public schools with taxes. I said that if you send your children to private school, and therefore relieve the state of the burden of educating your children, the state should not punish you by forcing you to pay for a service you don’t use.

                  “Brammo isn’t forcing you to to pay for its bikes.”

                  Nor can they. I never said they are. I said the government is forcing me to pay for them. The tax credits for which EV are eligible, and for which their owners apply do just that.

                  As for your pelican persona: cute, but wrong again.

                  Lithium battery types include lithium-manganese dioxide, lithium-sulfur dioxide, and lithiumthionyl chloride. The anode is composed of lithium and the cathode is composed of manganese
                  dioxide, (or sulfur dioxide, or thionyl-chloride).

                  Again, if you think replacing petroleum with all those chemicals is a net gain for the environment, you’re delusional.

                  Finally:

                  You STILL haven’t explained how forcing me to pay for EV that I will never own is fair, just or moral.

                • http://www.brammofan.com Brammofan

                  “I OPPOSE ALL SUBSIDIES FOR PRIVATE ENTERPRISE” Okay, okay, I get it. Let’s say I agree with you. Boom. Goodbye business deductions. And since the tax credit you don’t like here is one that is taken by an individual buying an EV (10%), then that’s no different, really, than the interest deduction you take on your house (the government supporting the private enterprise of home mortgage companies, home builders, real estate folks) so BOOM, goodbye home interest deduction. Medical payments so big this year that you itemized? BOOM. Goodbye – it supports the private enterprise of doctors, hospitals, health insurance companies, etc.

                  I know, I know, I “continue to obfuscate.” Mea culpa. I have “no reading comprehension.” Believe me, you’re not telling me anything I don’t hear from the fetching Ms.Brammofan every . night . of . my . life.

                  I guess we’ll just “have to agree to disagree.” Or, as Ms.Brammofan puts it, “you’re wrong.” But admittedly, you do have a point about that whole steak issue.

                • Oscar

                  @Brammofan

                  “that’s no different, really, than the interest deduction you take on your house (the government supporting the private enterprise of home mortgage companies, home builders, real estate folks) so BOOM, goodbye home interest deduction.”

                  Good! Government intervention in the housing market caused the housing bubble, which then collapsed and caused the current recession.

                  “Medical payments so big this year that you itemized? BOOM. Goodbye – it supports the private enterprise of doctors, hospitals, health insurance companies, etc.”

                  Good! Government intervention in the health industry is the reason why the health industry, unlike every other high tech industry, provides services at prices that increase every year at a rate higher than inflation.

                  Government subsidies sound good. Everybody likes free money. But they generate artificial demand, which then causes financial bubbles which eventually collapse, which isn’t good for anybody.

                  By the way, student loans will be the next bubble to burst.

              • Oscar

                @Brammofan

                Two more points:

                1: If you think the mining and processing of lithium produces any less pollution than the extraction, processing and burning of petroleum, you’re delusional.

                2: The vast majority of lithium deposts exists in “countries that aren’t necessarily our friends.”

                But again, nice try.

                • Oily Pelican

                  “1: If you think the mining and processing of lithium produces any less pollution than the extraction, processing and burning of petroleum, you’re delusional.”

                  Squawk. My friend the bird in Nevada, home of the Borate Hills project, a large lithium source, disagrees with you, Oscar. Squawk. Plus, most lithium isn’t mined anymore, it is extracted from brine. Squawk. Cough cough… excuse me, these tarballs from the Gulf kind of got me … choked up … cough.

                  Okay… I’m dead.

              • Thepainfultruth

                Let’s get real here. Individual personal transportation using any kind of energy does not solve the problem you describe. If you really want tonchangevthe world, invest the money in…..horrors…. public transportation…or a bicycle

    • http://el8id.com santarita

      150mph and 300mi range, or course!

    • AceCafeClipOns

      “Now what is everyone gonna complain about? “
      … noise?

  • Pascal

    Hell yeah. In a heartbeat, I would. Swap from my ICE bike to this, that is.

    But then my current bike is a 11 year old, underpowered 250 so I wouldn’t be giving up anything I’d miss.

  • HammSammich

    I am very excited about this. My next bike really does need to be a Sport Tourer, so this one will have to wait for a while, but In 3 – 5 years, I’d love to get something like this to use as my commuter bike. I’d be able to ride it for nearly a week without charging it!

  • http://worldof2.com/ Justin Penney

    I could work with this one! I recently rode Brammofan’s Enertia and while it’s nice, wouldn’t work for my riding at all. The Empulse here could … and looks pretty awesome too boot.

    I’m wondering if they’ll have a 220V charging option? If so, and it’s faster, I’d happily run a 220V line to my garage.

  • Jason Stone

    This is awesome if its truly 100 miles of usable range. That’s enough for my 60 mile a day highway commute and just barely enough even to ride from my door to the top of Mt. Palomar and back down

  • scott

    Ok…. now I’m starting to get a bit closer to actually putting money down on one of these… range is better, but charge time is kind of a concern,…..and as I’d be using this for Sunday morning sport rides up through the twisty’s of upstate NY, where handling/torque is king and huge horsepower just means you never get out of 1st-2nd gear… and that average loop is just about 100 miles door to door…. I’m pretty sure I’d be pissed off it it dies 3-5 miles from my house cause I was having a bit too much fun that day. My question would be, what do I gain if I could plug it in for 20-30 min or so at a half way point… can I add 5-10 miles with a short charge or is it a full charge or nothing.

    • protomech

      120v @ 15A @ 85% efficiency is about 1.5kw.

      Given they’re calculating range at 100wh/mile, you can get 15 miles of range per hour plugged in. Probably more like 10 miles at 70-80 mph, 17-20 miles at 35 mph.

      Federal tax credits for plug-in two wheelers are 10% of purchase cost. Most states will waive taxes for plug-in vehicles, iirc.

      So unless your state has nice incentives (OR, CA) you’re looking at:

      $9k for the 6kwh bike (60 mile)
      $10.8k for the 8kwh bike (80 mile)
      $12.6k for the 10kwh bike (100 mile)

      Do want.

  • Doug D.

    Wes, you’re hilarious: “Consult your local EV dealer to see what tax breaks are like where you live.”

    Local EV dealer? You know it, I know it and the readers of HFL know it: Electric-driven bikes (and cars for that matter) are getting close to the real deal, but the American people (i.e., the masses that will make selling electronic bikes profitable) won’t believe us for, at least, another 10 years. That’s why there aren’t EV dealers where I live in the Midwest (insert here the snide comment on how the Midwest is 10 years behind anyway).

    Why not put together a map with a mouseover feature that summarizes EV rebates in a given state? Because I’ll have tough luck finding an EV dealer in Wisconsin who can tell me.

  • http://sprocket.io/ Thomas Stromberg

    If they manage to release a model with ABS, then my pocketbook is open and at the ready. My employer has already offered to setup fast-charging stations for any employee-owned electrical vehicles. This would beat the hell out of the $50/week I spend in gassing up my R1150GS to get to work.

  • http://www.brammo.com BrammoBrian

    Thank you for the comments and criticism. The bike is planned to have a “fast charge” option to charge off 220V service. This would bring the charge times down to 2.5 hours or less for all models. Yes, even a 10 minute charge off 110V would help add range. If you’re like me, you stop at the top of the Sunday ride to grab a bite anyway, so may be able to charge it for 30 mins or more if you can find an outlet.

    BTW – We’re having some technical issues with our website, so look for more complete tech specs and information there as we get that fixed…

  • http://Http://plugbike.com/ Skadamo

    Doug D. I feel your pain. I’m in Chicago and am broke from flying to CA to see these bikes in real life. :D we have Zero reps near by.

    Brammo nailed it. Bring the high bars and geek out with adjustable power maps. Apparently the lith-cobalt batts and managment system in the TTR made more power than the PERM 150 could handle so let us type up some torque curves!

    Cheers Brammo!

  • Epyx

    This looks awesome! Great job. I thought the Inertia was uber lame looking and too much of a compromise but this is hardly a compromise at all.

    Really the only thing a rider would give up is riding more than 100 miles, but how many people ride more than 100 miles a day on bikes with clip-ons anyway?

    Price is right, range is right, performance is there, what else do you complainers want?

  • http://www.ducatinewstoday.com Mark Morrison

    Sorry don’t see the parity. It sure looks nice but then so does the Moto Morini Corsaro which it seems to mimic. My sport rides are usually at least 150 miles so I’d be stranded. Also how much does it weigh? How long does it take to charge (electric cars take 24 hours on 110V so I’m guessing 8 hours). What is the driver for interest for anyone who rides a sportbike as their recreational vehicle (apart from a few folks who will try out anything new)?

    • Methos1999

      Did you even read the article?? weighs 390 lbs, charge time will depend on pack size and voltage (110V vs 220V)… While you may not see the value in it, there are many who do, so go cruise out to the middle of nowhere and leave the rest of us alone.

  • http://www.ducatinewstoday.com Mark Morrison

    I should say I take nothing away from the excellent effort to produce such a machine. I just think electric bikes are an answer to a question no-one asked save for electric scooters and such for commuting

  • Roman

    Now that’s a great looking bike. Brammo is really cooking right now, do want!

  • http://www.thisblueheaven.com Mark D.

    Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. The range, speed, and price all hits the nail on the head. 100 mile range isn’t going to get somebody off a goldwing, but for commuters, you’d have to live WAY out in suburbia to touch that on a daily basis!

    Add to the fact that it looks killer, and Brammo has a real winner. What’s the distribution plan? I know Zero plans on selling bikes at Best Buys; a similar form of distribution could really get non-bikers into shops! Maybe bicycle stores? How many hipsters would love to trade in their Fixies for something with a little more balls?

    • Bill W

      Mark D., Brammo is already selling bikes at a few Best Buys. AFAIK, Zero sells only direct or through owner/reps.

      • http://www.thisblueheaven.com Mark D.

        Ahhhh, yes, I knew it was one of the Electric manufacturers. Good to see its Brammo, that’s an excellent distro plan.

  • http://twitter.com/beastincarnate Beast Incarnate

    Why hello there, Mr. Empulse. I may find your name cheesy, but what’s in a name?

    It’s amazing how fast the industry is moving. Very exciting. Even at a 100 mile range, it couldn’t be my ONLY bike, but it’d take care of 90% of my riding just fine.

  • Erythroplasia

    Wes could this be the missing link for new riders?

    New riders tend to use bikes in low mileage situations and primarily for enjoyment, so alternative transportation is available.

    The electric power curve will provide power evenly for new riders and there does not appear to be a clutch, so no shifting.

    Add a more neutral ridding position and this could very easily be the perfect starter bike. One would need to learn how to shift eventually but they could get the basics of riding down prior to the eventuality.

    As this would primarily be a commuter would not a more neutral position have made more sense anyway? More upright bars and midmounts? Easy changes for sure.

  • Marc

    Very good upgrade from the Inertia. I would love to take it for a test drive? A good option for the bike would be the ability to purchase full farings like your RR.

  • Wade

    This bike is perfect for my needs which are commuting and light duty around town riding. While I have to agree that ABS would be nice, I think it’s unfair to expect ABS availability at this stage of development. Major MC companies are still rolling out ABS across the model lines. I love the styling, but I’m happy to hear that regular bars (or higher clipons) will be available.

    But the potential ramifications of this product are astounding. When I ride this bike to work or Dairy Queen (or BOTH now) and tell people it’s electric, they’re gonna flip out. THIS bike is what people have been waiting for. Awesome job Brammo! Great stuff!

  • Marc

    Another change I would like to see is the rear seat fairing shaved down a bit. Maybe just big enough to hold the seat and the brake light. I think that will give you a much cleaner looking rear on the bike.

  • Erythroplasia

    You guys and ABS. How did we ever survive without ABS? Its just one more thing to brag about. Its a nice safety feature but its not the end all be all, especially with a bike this small.

  • chili sv

    I’m somewhat conflicted here. I don’t approve of using a stolen (“steal”) tubular swing arm, but I am intrigued by the potential to fry foods on the go using the “batter pack.”

    • Peter

      Haha. You are too funny.

  • CMC

    Wow, that looks really nice and realistic on almost all points that matter to me. I’d like a little more than 100 miles, but as my current bike (2009 Daytona) is only about a year old, I’m not looking to change it out anytime soon. However, I’m guessing in a couple-three more years, there will be no good reason not to consider an electric.

    Nice going, Brammo, and keep up the efforts!

  • Jackie

    Lovely. Give me the option to plug in a portable solar panel and I can give it small charge while grabbing a bite here in So. Cal.

    If the final production model is even close to this, then I’ll pick one up in an instant.

    • protomech

      A 4 ft x 2 ft solar panel is only good for 80w, tops. If you take two hours for your meal, you’ll have put another mile or two back on the bike, at best.

      • jackie

        Dam…if the solar panel idea is out, how about a big propeller/turbine mounted on my helmet?

    • Mitch

      Pfft, haha. Unless that solar panel is 4′ by 8′ or bigger, you’re not going to get much into that battery.

  • eze1976

    nice, much closer to edit I see.

  • Jason Stone

    The thing I am most wondering is if that is 100 miles of truly usable range in testing under normal riding conditions or if that’s 100 miles if you are putting about under optimal conditions

  • Erythroplasia

    Biggest drawback is not range or charge time or performance – it is the lack of shifting.

    Will this get boring and become an riding appliance? A fast appliance but still. Will the visceral thrill be mitigated by lack of sound and mechanical interaction?

    Japaneses bikes have often been criticized for being too smooth, too quiet, too perfect, i.e no emotion. Will an electric bike lack soul?

    Who knows? I am willing to find out, but hopefully that does not become the Achilles heal of the EV motorcycle. Does not look like technology is a problem.

    • http://www.brammofan.com Brammofan

      “Biggest drawback is not range or charge time or performance – it is the lack of shifting.” And if Brammo came up with some sort of transmission (which would add needless complexity to an electric bike and many $$ to the price) in order to address your request, what then? No soul? Oy vey.

      Brian – I suggest you add a vibrating rumble pack under the seat to appease folks who think it is “too smooth” and a scratch-n-sniff patch on the “tank” with an odor of “Essence of too-richly-mixed I.C.E. bike” to keep everyone happy.

      Scratch that. Just keep doing what you’re doing. This RUB (not rich or urban… but what the hey) loves it.

      • Erythroplasia

        Hey over react much? I just asked some legit questions about some differences with ICE (less the shifting)that MAY (not WILL) be a factor in adoption. If you were not such a zealot you would realize I have been very complimentary of the bike.

        These difference may (again may) effect conquest sales but new riders probably wont mind.

        Is there any harm in having a discussion. Wow, lighten up.

        • Peter

          Don’t worry about him. Brammofan is Brammo’s number one nutswinger. Hence his name, I suppose.

        • http://www.brammofan.com Brammofan

          I actually prefer Peter’s term “Brammo’s number one nutswinger” to “zealot.” You’re right, though. I need to lighten up. I was caught up in the Empulse love and stopped short at your comment. Sorry about my indignant response. Okay… a discussion.
          I was at the first TTXGP race at Infineon and only one of the bikes there had a transmission…even that one required no rider interaction as it was a CVT. As an Enertia rider (and former owner of a Honda CB550), I don’t miss the shifting. But then again, as Peter noted, I’m biased. Peace.

      • Erythroplasia

        Also, I never said it NEEDS a transmission. I merely pointed out that shifting is part of the FUN of riding a motorcycle, not to mention part of the skill.

        I would lament the loss.

      • eric

        Brammofan, I nearly fell out of my chair laughing. Scratch-N-sniff. Priceless.

        Brian, THIS is the bike I’ve been waiting for! Nice job! Now, just lose the clip-ons, or make a tubular handlebar optional, and you can sign me up. It’s about damn time someone figured out how to express the battery pack, without it looking like you stuck a beer cooler between the frame rails. Nicely done.

        • Erythroplasia

          For someone so excited about a product one would expect that you read the article.

          Clip-ons will be optional and a upright bars will be standard.

          • eric

            Yeah, I saw that seconds after sending my post. No worries.

  • http://verywhitenoise.com jonb

    Curious to know who they source the final production suspension and wheels from. Front end looks like Kawi stuff?

    Such an awesome step in the evolution of e-bikes.

  • Michael

    I could see this relegating the ‘Strada 1200 to weekend/fun trips while the Empulse handles commuting duty very nicely!

    Question, what kind of service is required t keep this machine up and running besides replacing consumables?

  • robotribe

    Damn. This just made my day.

  • http://www.ecademy.com Julian Bond

    Much as I like this thing, I wish the Electric Bike people would follow Craig Vetter and put some effort into aerodynamics. This same powertrain in a fully streamlined recumbent would go 50% faster or 100% further.

    Note here: The E-Tracer (electric Ecomobile) is currently leading the automotive X-Prize. It’s seriously fast and seriously economical.

    But then the traditional motorcycle industry is still building powered sit up and beg bicycles. And we’ve all bee conditioned to think anything else is the ghey.

    • Erythroplasia

      A recumbent? Please go away.

    • Sean Smith

      Recumbent bikes are teh ghey. Ever seen a Dan Gurney Alligator? I know a few guys that have ridden them, and they can confirm that they are in fact totally lame.

      Besides, you can’t drag a knee on a recumbent.

  • Jackie

    Would love to see belt drive.

  • baconpocket

    I want this more than a gold bikini-clad princess leia

  • Bill W

    Want!

    My only issue was that I’d want 220V charging at home, and I see Brian has addressed that in the comments. Since I live in CA, the state will give me a nice credit. And my solar panels produce more power than I use, so I could probably charge it without buying any carbon-based electricity.

    It’s not gonna replace my R1150RT, but I’d consider replacing my V-Strom with it, since I don’t take the Strom off-road anyway.

  • Bill W

    Forgot one comment: they really need to get a more dynamic narrator for that video. The picture is exciting, the narration is zzzzzzzz (no offense intended to the narrator).

  • Kidchampion

    I like this design. Are the brakes used for regenerating power? That would certainly complicate ABS. And I want the opposite of recumbent and streamlined. In fact, I’d like wider bars with a more upright seating position because I’d ride this in the city and I like seeing over cars, and being seen.

  • JeffEnertia

    For those concerned about “usable range,” I will say that I have not seen Brammo make any attempts in the past to inflate their range or top speed claims. As an Enertia owner, I get top speeds of 65mph without any trouble and my bike has never gotten less than 45 miles of range, even when the ride includes a few sustained durations at top speed. What Brammo says they have; they have.

  • Matt

    I want it! I’d totally sell my wr250x for that thing. It’s my current commuter and only goes 90 miles before it needs to refill. Being able to plug in every night means I’d never have to go to the gas station again!

    FUCK YOU BP!!!

  • http://damiengaudet.blogspot.com damien

    I would love to have this bike. I’d have Death Spray Customs paint me up a schematic style lid.

  • pdub

    From science and engineering experiment to curious toy for the well heeled to everyman practical. The commercial development of this is happening much faster than I would have thought. This might not yet be in the everyman practical category just yet but it’s tipping there. I couldn’t see this replacing the weekend backroad sport or cruising bike as many (myself included) here would hope. ICE still has it in refuel time and infrastructure of places to do that. This would be practical for the local in town get around bike or for the commuter who has a shop or office where they could charge it during the day and top it off so they don’t have to ride with one eye on the battery guage. This thing does have a gauge for battery charge?

  • W

    There is a bit of the old smoke and mirror here, more accurately this should be called “Sportster parity”.

    As anyone who has owned an Ironhead Sportster can attest, a 100 mile range is actually a 50 mile range, 80 is 40, 60 is 30 and so on, assuming you are planning to go back to where you started, which is arguably the case (and assuming the Ironhead doesn’t break, which is why the 50 mile limit was acceptable for so long).

    The difference is that, at the end of 100 miles, you can refill the Sportster and keep going (if your bowels can take it). With an electric, if there is no infrastructure at the end of the ride, that old ICE pickup truck will be on its way to get you.

    So the environment for this bike is limited, but the environment of motorcyclists is not as limited. It will require a paradigm shift for most motorcyclists to get on board, although there is a whole crowd of non-motorcyclists that might be interested. Assuming that is the case, the next question is whether can the charge last through an entire day of MSF training?

    An I still haven’t heard a good response to the issue of seriously limited rare earths (projected to be at critical levels within 5 years or so) needed to make EVs (almost all of which come from China).

    Better looking than the last and, at least, it’s got a better stance and seems to have imporved components.

    Should make us all safer and cut down on police chases, in any case….it ain’t hooligan if you can’t do a runner.

    And don’t get all self righteous and act like you’ve never made a a few quick rights and lefts…..

  • nate

    The one thing I haven’t seen commented on is heat. I’m so sick of my 1L roasting me during the summer months. I know it says the batteries are cooled, but I’m willing to bet it doesn’t throw off anywhere near the same amount, and that to me = WIN.

  • Erythroplasia

    MSF training? That’s digging deep for something to complain about. Last time I checked MSF had their own fleet. Besides, MSF is not required for most places.

    That brings up a point. Do you need a motorcyle license to ride a EV bike? 50cc and lower scooter dont, and this has 0cc?

    • http://www.brammofan.com Brammofan

      Eryth – I got a motorcycle endorsement to ride mine, but I did so out of an “abundance of caution” rather than any clear statement in the Missouri Motorcycle Manual. I basically equated it with a “real” motorcycle since it can exceed 60mph and since it was considered as a “real” motorcycle when I licensed the bike itself.

      • Erythroplasia

        I did not think if it from that angle (actual performance) vs a cc number. I guess the law will need to catch up.

    • protomech

      These should have plenty of charge to make it through an MSF course. I took a rider’s edge course a couple years ago, I think we rode less than 20 miles over the two days. 20 miles inside of a parking lot is a fair bit of riding.

      Granted, I think the MSF course with an electric bike would be a one day course. No learning to shift smoothly, no learning the clutch friction zone, no learning to use the clutch and throttle in harmony for low-speed operation.

      Eventually the regulations will get caught up with the technology. Probably they’ll adapt from a cc restriction for the M license to a top speed restriction.

  • Jason Stone

    @W My comments about usable range are because I know what an average short ride loop or commute for me is. (30miles each way commute)

    My concern was with the fact that commute is 75-80mph affair on the freeway and if that shortens the actual range the bike will make it.

    And on the shifting gears aspect I love big flat torque curves and being able to just drive with the throttle

  • Stephano

    I love the tail section. That is what the Ducati “Streetfighter” should have looked!! Imagine that engine with this body!

  • Chris Y.

    I can imagine using this for my daily commute, no problem.

  • http://www.americadelivered.com Nick

    I know this wouldn’t be accurate to predict where you could go… but… http://www.oldimprints.com/OldImprints/search.cfm?UR=40424&search_stage=details&records_to_display=1

  • NoBody

    Yeah, this needs a vestigial shift lever. That way, those who just aren’t satisfied with riding will get the stimulation provided by mechanical masturbation that they clearly crave.

    It also needs a vestigial kickstarter. How else will I start it if the battery dies? Where are the dummy valves to adjust? Or clutch to blame if I’m slow?

    And who wants a recumbent bike anyway? Style is far more important than performance! Just ask any Harley rider! Oh dear me – could it be that the current generation of sportbike riders are the next generation of OLD guys whining about the kids riding those new recumbent motorbikes covered in even more plastic than their own proper sportbikes? Yeah, life peaked in 2008.

  • http://tremoto.com Eddie Smith

    Way to go, Brammo! We can’t wait to see it at Laguna…

  • Tink

    Looks & sounds nice.
    What I want to know is how many charges is the battery going to be good for, how long is the battery expected to last under normal useage, and what’s a replacement battery going to cost?

  • Jake

    Why not put together a map with a mouseover feature that summarizes EV rebates in a given state? Because I’ll have tough luck finding an EV dealer in Wisconsin who can tell me.

    Or you could take 2 minutes and go to google and type in “STATENAME electric vehicle tax credits” and see what comes up.

  • http://www.webspawner.com/users/applebeecoupongi/morecompliments.html Melvin Cloninger

    omfg you guys are thus funny, this is going on my channel, hahaah!

  • Mitch

    Finally, a non-exotic electric that doesn’t look like a test mule. I really like the combo chain guard/rear hugger. Put a bar on it and go with cheaper forks but add ABS as an option (despite it’s actual usefulness it seems to be an easy money option). And use a headlight that can accept a HID projector. HIDs draw 35 watts as opposed to 55 watt halogens, so I think that’d be a clear win right there.

    I still agree with a previous poster in the sentiment that this is an answer to a question no one asked; these first bikes will go down in sales flames, but will pave the way for the acceptance of alternative fuel and propulsion vehicles later on. If you could time this juuust right with the next explosion in gas prices (and you know it’ll happen again), you could get some serious traction.

  • scott

    BrammoBrian thanks for addressing some of my concerns directly….and yes we generally do make a stop for a snack and whatever at about the 50 mile mark… and if I can do a quick plug in and add back in some range to get my ass home without pushing that takes care of that. My Ducati’s are gasping at 100 miles, so I’m used to that type of range and really that’s about my Sunday morning average round trip, which is where this bike would be used.
    I guess the only question left would be if I opt’d for a 220 charge, which I’d gladly setup in the garage…can it be dual switched to also take 110…. much more common at stops, and yeah I’m betting I can talk someone into letting me string the cord that looks like it stores in the tank in through a door/window or to an outdoor outlet at a dinner/gas-convenient store.
    As to the sound…and I’m used to LOTS of sound…clutch chatter, intake roar, exhaust roar, over run roar…you name it I’m immersed in it…and yeah that’s fun, but from videos I’ve heard it has a sound.. like a TIE fighter going by…and that would just be a different type of immersion, like being in a jet fighter as compared to an open cockpit biplane. Vibration… well you live with that, any option to remove some of it and most people jump at that chance, so loosing that I do not see as a problem. Gears, hmmm, do I care? Not really… if I can have some engine compression style braking (maybe adjustable via programming, and maybe giving the battery something back at the same time) and instant torque on demand, it just eliminates that extra movement involved.
    You guys have done a great job on the styling, looking forward to see any changes as it gets closer to production (wider tank would be good for hanging off/locking the leg in place)
    PLEASE keep or offer the clip ons…. I kind of like the suggestion of full body work in a RR version as well.
    I personally hate the dirt bike/superbike bars… the lower the better and I’m pushing my 50th birthday… so stop whining about your backs and just get in shape…. you’ll have more fun and control with clip ons up in the mountains! For Urban use… yeah the higher bars make sense… but please make it a user definable option!
    If you guys deliver on what you have on paper, then I will spend my hard earned cash with you.. without hesitation.

  • Doug Panting

    “this is an answer to a question no one asked”

    People have been asking these questions for years:

    How do we cut our dependancy on foreign oil?

    What do we do about our declining oil reserves?

    What do we do about rising costs of exploration and production?

    How do we cut down on city polution?

    Here’s the updated question:

    How do we cut down on risky oil extraction and make sure that something like the spill in the Gulf of Mexico never happens again?

    I already park my jeep seven months a year because of electric motocycles. I ride everyday.

    I asked the questions…it was the answer.

    It’s not the final answer but a step in the right direction.

  • Carpe Mortis

    I’ll admit this is very tempting. As a commuter bike the specs seems to fit the bill nicely. But I still have one major concern.

    Noise.

    “Loud Pipes Save Lives” I commute on Los Angeles freeways, and I have a hard enough time getting the other drivers to notice me. Replacing the stock pipes on with louder ones did make a noticeable difference.

    The geek in me want’s an electric Bike like no one’s business. But the rider in me want’s to keep the rubber side down.

    • Sean Smith

      Loud pipes don’t do a thing. 80 miles a day up and down the 405 in the heaviest traffic has taught me a thing or two about lane splitting at speed.

      There are a few things you can do to help increase your chances of survival in LA traffic: Use your highbeam. Aimed in the rear-view mirror of a car, a flashing highbeam is a helluva lot more likely to be noticed than an annoyingly loud pipe that pisses off the people behind you. Riding where cars can see you helps a lot too. Not splitting lanes? You’re asking to get killed. Motorcycles are not cars. They’re much much smaller and riding your motorcycle is a car shaped bubble is a bad idea. You’ll get hit.

      Sorry to flame you man, but loud pipes don’t save lives. No one notices you until you’re already passed, and a bunch of noise does nothing more than piss people off.

  • http://www.justzeros.com Brandon Glanville

    Now we’re talking. If the numbers are legit and they can get it produced on time… this pushes electro moto right into the path of traditional wisdom. This will also force anyone else to step up their game big time. I’m sure the final bike will have some differences though. Like much more affordable wheels for one. ;)

    Good job Brammo! Keep it up.

  • http://www.urbanrider.co.uk Urban Rider

    :O beautiful

  • Jackie

    I’d like to know if Brammo has any sort of “Battery Upgrade” path in mind for this or future bikes.

    It would be nice to know a buyer could trade in their older (shorter ranger battery pack) for something that provides improved performance as they become available.

    It would certainly make the 100 mile limitation a little more palatable. As it stands now, the bike is the perfect commuter, but a very short range fun bike; which limits its potential market.

    • Mitch

      If there’s one frame and one motor, as it appears to be here, I don’t see why you can’t just get the larger battery cluster and fit it right in. Now, if/when they fit a better, more efficient motor, that may not be upgradeable, but that’s a limitation of any motor vehicle really.

      And while we’re totally off topic here, public education is a wonderful thing, as raising the education and therefor abilities of the future citizens of a country increases that country’s value as far as it’s workforce goes. It’s just a little part of something called a ‘social contract’, which is a great thing to have, because humans work best when we cooperate with each other. Creating a path for people to better their lives is one of the most noble parts of America, and I would like to see that live on, even if it means people who don’t share my skin color or language stand to benefit. Compassion is not weakness.

  • PatrickVA

    Great question Jackie. This is another big step in getting electric bikes where they need to be, but I would hesitate to buy knowing it might be obsolete in a year when the latest battery technology (or shape) comes in.

    Is there a plan Brammo?

    Bravo by the way – nice looking bike, and way to be making something new rather than just ruminating on what should be available.

  • Les

    Lust.

    Great looking bike. The weight and visuals are very much in the ballpark. The power is damn close. The mileage is just about there. The pricing is not horrendous.

    I can see my next bike being something very much like this. If i had a little more financial freedom I’d place my order now.

    Sorry honda…you snooze you loose.

  • Derrick

    Sweet.

    Does this thing have gears? I know that the Enertia is single speed and it’s a bit of a turn off, but if this is the standard 5-speed I’m in for sure. What a great looking bike.

  • Jackie

    (this is not an argument, or meant to be argumentative)…these are just some of “my thoughts.” Everyone is welcome to their own.)

    The subsidies are there because a majority of the populous deems(ed) it a worthy thing to do.

    This is an assumption here, but products like these are viewed as “valuable” because there is the impression that vehicles like these actually have the ability to benefit everyone in their ability to reduce pollution/noise/congestion wherever they are used. This is a benefit that everyone can enjoy regardless if they make a purchase or not.

    These are also “seed” type initiatives, not meant to last forever, that help a worthy (again, based on public opinion) emerging product, and the company creating them. To me, it fosters “risk” and innovation. Where a company is not afraid to design/fund/release a helpful product, and the consumer who is interested, is willing to take a risk on said new technology, and actually buy and use it.

    The consumer gets a publically deemed worthy product in the marketplace sooner, and the business get’s needed funds to invest in itself and other new products because of the increase in sales.

    Plus, in all reality, the total subsidies are so small in the overall picture, that they merely serve as a catalyst to energize early adopters to the technology or product. For me, it’s all upside. Happy business employs more workers, who innovate more products, that lessen our impact on the environment, and reduce our need for oil. I’d vote for that…in fact I’ll write my politicians and tell them how happy I am about it.

    All truth be told, oil is dead to the common-man(women)-consumer. Vehicles like these will slowly take over the roadways, and gas-powered cars/motorbikes will vanish in our lifetime. The sooner it happens the better.

    Did you (not directed at any particular “you” here), that it takes more energy to dig/refine/process/transport a gallon of gas, than that gallon of gas produces when used? It’s something like 1 unit of energy needed to produce .8 units of energy. This is untenable.

    One need only look at the Gulf spill to see how close to done we are with oil as a consumer. And not because of the spill itself, but because of where the spill is located. Oil companies are being forced to go to more and more difficult places to dig, places they never would have gone to in the past; all in an effort to find and extract the resource. The costs are astronomical.

    So…subsidies for electric vehicles? You betchya! Please! Bring it on! More! Thank you!
    I like knowing that my tax dollars are in some way helping this little startup company we call Brammo. They beat HD, Honda, Ducati, Yamaha and all the others to the punch…and are an American Company no less. Where the hell is my flag? I need something to wave.

    • Oleg

      Call me crazy, but I doubt that an oil company would use up more gasoline than it produces in order to produce said gasoline, for simple reason that such company wouldn’t be economically viable, since it wouldn’t be able to turn a profit. I also seriously doubt that most people share the sentiment of “oil being dead” to them. Exxon Valdeez didn’t put a dent into the number of large petroleum cars being sold, and neither will Deepwater Horizon. It’s the same hollow and hypocritical sentiment as when it comes to wind energy – “yeah, put those cool windmills up, just do it in the next town over”. It also always astounds me whenever windmills, solar and hydrothermal energy are being brought up in regards to lessening dependence on foreign oil, as if electrical generation has a damn thing to do with oil.

      As for the article – cool bike, although I think it would be nice if the battery pack was a bit less prototype-looking, perhaps a small chin spoiler to integrate it more with the rest of the bodywork? Hopefully in another 3-5 years the price will have come down sufficiently to make them competitive with mid-range bikes without having to resort to tax credits and such.

      • Ben

        Not sure if your remark on renewable engergy not impacting oil consumption was a joke or not.. If it wasn’t:

        http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epa/epat1p2.html

        There are 3,768 oil* powered power plants in the US. They make up a rather small portion of the power generation mix, ~6%, but they are there. If you factor in natural gas you’re looking at ~47% of the mix.

        *Distillate fuel oil (all diesel and No. 1, No. 2, and No. 4 fuel oils), residual fuel oil (No. 5 and No. 6 fuel oils and bunker C fuel oil), jet fuel, kerosene, petroleum coke (converted to liquid petroleum, see Technical Notes for conversion methodology), and waste oil.

        • Oleg

          No, I was definitely serious, thanks for the link. I was under the impression that coal-burning plants generated over 80% of electricity in US but the mix is clearly rather different. Although if you want to get into the semantics of it, natural gas burned at those plants isn’t necessarily imported or even derived from oil processing, so the connection there is rather tenuous, fact that natural gas isn’t oil aside.

  • David Folch

    why every time I read or hear “How do we cut our dependancy on foreign oil?” I feel racism behind (and an excuse for all oil related wars) ?
    Why not saying simply “How can we cut USA (and also the rest of the world) dependency on oil” ?
    I’d rather go for this last sentence. It’s more peaceful…

  • MTGR

    Well done Brammo.

    Someone finally realized that bikes designed to look more like i phones than bikes are not likely to appeal to the average biker who – surprise, surprise – likes bikes that look like bikes.

    Looks like they are getting a handle on the range issues too. I hope they sell a billion and make enough cash to keep advancing the technology. Between the improvements these guys and the consonant king (MotoCzysz) are making we may actually get to the point of real e-dealers that sell something that can be used for real motorcycling.

  • eric

    Gee, I remember when bikes were fun. Lighten up a bit, folks!

    I can’t wait to see one of these in person. When are we going to see brammo’s in sunny arizona?

  • Fred

    @ Oscar

    Brammofan made excellent comparisons. just because you are too stubborn to admit you are wrong, does not mean his points are not relevant.

    Lol at the private school comment. Just because you send your kids to private school does not mean they will get a better education. You can get as good (or bad) education from a public school as you want. It’s all about the effort you put in.

    Since most private schools are religious schools, your child will be brainwashed, and most likely not be able to think for him/her self.

    • Oscar

      @Fred

      1: Private schools routinely outperform public schools in standardized tests which are written by public school officials.

      2: You missed my point entirely. My point is NOT that private schools are better. My point is:

      If you send your children to private school, and therefore relieve the state of the burden of educating your children, the state should not punish you by forcing you to pay for a service you don’t use.

      I’ve already stated this twice, so if you’re too stupid to understand it the third time (i.e. incapable of thinking for yourself), I can’t help you.

      • Fred

        Oh, so you only want taxes to support only things you use and like? Lol

        As far as the thinking for yourself comment, it sounds like you better go listen to Limbaugh some more.

        You contradict yourself more than anybody I know.

        Too bad you cannot buy a brain. Otherwise you might have a chance at being as smart as you think you are.

      • Peter

        Oscar,

        I agree with you. Your arguments are logical, and I do not think private enterprise should be subsidized either. The private school thing makes sense too.

  • Scotto

    What else to say except I want one. I pre-ordered an EMS GPR-S last year, but cancelled that as something just didn’t feel right about the product. I’m glad I did though due to all the manufacturing issues and delays that were reported. Brammo has always had their act together as long as I’ve known them so can’t go wrong with this new model!

  • K2theM

    Sweet!

    Three years later and Brammo Delivers the first viable Electric Motorcycle.

    It’s still out of my price range (anyone want to chip in? Is there a way to be a “Beta” tester? I commute to Portland, Ore every day…), but as a daily commuter this thing sounds like the perfect bike.

    I’ve ridden the Enertia, and if this bike handles/ performs anything close to that bike it will be a winner.

  • http://www.flickr.com/blueyes tony starr

    amazing motorcycle. just wish there was more places to re-charge. realistically i could only do it from home and if i was lucky, at work. how many people would really let you plug in and use their electrically?

    i do have a question for brammo (apologies if it’s been covered in the above comments). what happens when the batteries lose their optimal charging performance? my laptop’s battery life was great brand new but now after a couple of years, i’ll be lucky to get 30 minutes use without it being plugged in.

  • 2togo

    Virtually EVERY sportbike rider in San Diego ends up in one of 4 or 5 spots (top of Palomar, Julian, Borrego Springs etc) on their Sunday ride. Brammo should equip a “mobile recharge” (and marketing) van with 220v and coffee. Charge up, caffeine up,releive yourself and have your friend demo one while you wait.
    Bang, range extended, marketing done directly to the target audience, everyone gets what they need.
    I’ll go first, but I am NOT going to buy one from fricken Best Buy, The geek factor is through the roof.

  • Mitch

    Does the Empulse have a removable battery pack for those of us who live in apartment blocks?

    • http://www.brammofan.com Brammofan

      “Does the Empulse have a removable battery pack for those of us who live in apartment blocks?”
      Not yet. But Home Depot has extension cords.
      For every problem, a solution. Brammofan.

      • Mitch

        An extension cord is really a solution if it’s gotta go 3 floors down an elevator shaft into a basement carpark.

        • http://www.brammofan.com Brammofan

          Surely there must be an outlet somewhere in that basement carpark. I’ve gotten pretty adept at sighting random outlets behind stores, popping up from the ground next to the ubiquitous trees planted in the middle of city sidewalks (for the yearly Christmas lights), etc. The Level 2 charging infrastructure might not be there yet, but I look around and see that 110V charging infrastructure everywhere. “Electric Motorcycle Energy: Free, when you charge at work.”

  • mike

    Oscar – just like you showed that you benefit from interstates that you’ve never personally used, don’t you (along with the rest of the nation) benefit from the public school system’s helping to educate the people who don’t have access to private school (when the system works…)? If people kept better informed by using basic skills afforded them by decent public schools, I believe things would be a lot better these days.

    Unfortunately too many people don’t care enough and things have gone downhill. Still, I think everyone could benefit from the public school system, especially if it was in better shape. I think one of the reasons private schools score better in comparisons is because the very act of putting your kids in private school shows you care at some level about their education. There are more children in public school whose parents treat it as day care, and I think that reflects on the student’s performance…

    Back to the bike – If I had the money to blow, I’d go for it. This seems promising.

    • Oscar

      @Mike

      Do you also have a problem with reading comprehension?

      I’ve stated TREE TIMES NOW:

      If you send your children to private school, and therefore relieve the state of the burden of educating your children, the state should not punish you by forcing you to pay for a service you don’t use.

      In other words, if you send your kid to public school, you should pay the taxes to support the public school. If you send your kid to private school you’re relieving the state of the burden of educating your kid, and therefore should be rewarded by not having to pay for your neighbors’ kids’ educations.

      Furthermore, the excuses you make for public schools’ poor performance don’t wash. Public charter schools outperform traditional public schools even though they teach the same kids from the same neighborhoods. It’s not about the kids. It’s about how the schools are run.

      • mike

        Ok, then if you refrain from driving on roads (directly benefiting from them) then your taxes shouldn’t go toward them either. My point was that even though you’re not sending your kids to public school, you still indirectly benefit from them.

        I wasn’t making excuses, just offering an opinion. I haven’t really looked into the matter, just sort of throwing it out there.

        • Oscar

          @Mike

          Seriously, can you read?

          If a person sends their kid to private school they have relieved the state of the burden of educating their kid, therefore they shouldn’t have to pay the state to educate other people’s kids.

          It is impossible for any individual to relieve the state of the burden of building roads, because even if they don’t drive on those roads, the goods and services we all use every day DO travel on those roads.

          The same is true of law enforcement, courts, the military, tax collection, etc.

          Education doesn’t compare to those because it IS possible for an individual to relieve the state of the burden of educating their child(ren).

          • mike

            Ok Oscar, I give up. I’ve explained why the value of other children’s public education CAN compare with the value of roads you don’t drive on, but you’re either ignoring it or too stupid to understand it. Good day.

          • Cameron

            So, as I understand you, If you have no involvement in it, you should be exempt from paying taxes for it. I would truly love to agree with you on that one. But I would bet that when the railroad was being built, and the government subsidized it, there were people that said the same thing. But now, we see that the future of the country was better because of it. When the fledgling airline companies were subsidized heavily for carrying the mail, there were people. But now, even after deregulation, nearly everyone has flown at least once, so we can see it helped. Most new technologies in your own house have been subsidized by the federal gov. at one time or another. Do you have any Hamilton Beach appliances? WWII defense subsidies. Boeing? Ford? The list goes on and on. The fact is, new technologies need the assistance because the people are scared of anything new and until they are more mainstream, alternative fuels will need help. Contrary to what you may think, you WILL be directly affected by their success or failure. Just as you are directly affected by the Gulf Spill and whether the cap holds or not. If you don’t like where your tax dollars go, lobby your congress to vote differently. Put a different representative in office.

  • Isaac

    This bike makes me all tingly in the pants.

  • dreison

    180 section rear? surely a 160 would be better suited. It’s an electric bike after all, if people want street-cred they’ll be buying something else

  • Ak

    Why are they messing with the gas tank?
    Why IS there a gas tank in the first place??

    • http://www.brammo.com BrammoBrian

      It’s not a “gas tank”. It’s an “on-board battery charger cover”… hmmmm…have to come up with a shorter name…

  • http://worldof2.com/ Justin Penney

    The real question to ask …

    Wheelie?

  • GeddyT

    Oscar, Mike made a very valid point there and you completely dismissed it. In the same way that you benefit indirectly from roads you never drive on, you benefit indirectly from the people around you not being complete morons. What percentage of goods and services that you take advantage of wholly exist due to people who obtained their education in public schools?

    Carry that over into electric vehicle subsidies and there’s a very good chance that you will similarly benefit indirectly whether or not you even own one. The economy you participate in might be stronger, for instance, via local jobs and industry. Maybe the bump start electric vehicles receive in the beginning mean down the road they surpass ICE vehicles in every way and make for a better life for your children or their children? Maybe much down the road you can sleep better at night because America isn’t embroiled in a half dozen wars over oil? Maybe–just maybe–YOU even end up buying an electric some day that you LOVE because of the efforts allowed by this initial investment by everyone.

    But this is a minor annoyance. What really gets me is your complete misunderstanding of the government’s influence into several crises. You’ve more than once claimed that government intervention into the housing market is the reason for the current recession, facts be damned. Never mind that according the the Federal Reserve Board, between 2004 and 2007 (the peak of the housing bubble) 84% of subprime mortgages were issued by private institutions, 83% of subprime loans to low and medium income borrowers were from private institutions, and that leading up to that period, in 2006, only one of the top 25 subprime lenders was even subject to the Community Reinvestment Act. It wasn’t about getting immigrants into McMansions, it was about creating a giant pool of financial instruments for Wall Street to play with. You also don’t seem to understand that a LACK of government involvement in the financial markets and weakening of financial regulation allowed major banks to… you know what, read for yourself. This is one subject in which Wikipedia is pretty good.

    No, the current recession is one prime example of where APPROPRIATE government intervention could have prevented the whole thing, as opposed to being a cause. For instance, if hedge funds were actually regulated and couldn’t wipe out two of the five largest investment banks in the world via floods of naked short selling, we might be in a lot better shape right now. But, you know, these private entities know best and always do what’s right for the world…

    As to government involvement in medicine being the reason for the cost spiraling out of control, this is laughable. Consider how many countries have single payer health care systems or systems in which the public option competes with the private sector in order to keep costs down and then compare their quality of care to ours. Those who think we get the best medical care in the world here are sadly mistaken. And we pay dearly for it.

    But, I get it. I do possess reading comprehension, and therefore have gathered that there is no such thing as an argument that would convince you to even consider looking at the world differently than you already do. Good thing I have a boring job and don’t mind wasting my time, right!?

  • Bald Shaun

    So when’s the test ride?

    P.S. I want one!

  • tink

    If you kiddies are about done with the political rant (crap people go find a many-bloodsuckers board and spew on that..)
    I’ll re-post my question and maybe a Brammo person can respond.

    How many charges is the battery going to be good for, how long is the battery expected to last under normal useage (how many years) and what’s a replacement battery going to cost?

    • mike

      Sorry for the political crap…guess I look like an idiot debating education and taxes on a motorcycle website, haha.

      That’s a really good point about the battery longevity – if it only lasts a year or so before it can’t hold enough charge then it will definitely be a problem. I would expect the replacement battery to be pretty expensive. I’d like to know these answers as well.

    • Cameron

      Last I heard, the bats should last 5 to 7 years depending on how hard their used. Approximate cost has been compared to Zero’s at around $4,000. Take into account the complete lack of filling at the gas station, oil changes, etc. etc. and it will be around the same cost as owning and riding an ICE. The added benefits of no emissions, quiet rides, owning one of the coolest pieces of technology with wheels should offset the scales a bit. Also, we need to consider that between the first estimated cost of the Enertia at $11,995 and the final cost of $7,995 was caused by better supply and lower cost of doing business than Brammo considered. What will change before the next battery change?

  • http://damiengaudet.blogspot.com damien

    Oscar…the grouch.

    I’m not 100% sure if that’s how you spell “grouch” because i went to public school, sorry.

  • Jackie

    More Brammo thoughts:

    160 rear tire:
    I’m with the other poster…I’d rather have a 160 rear wheel on the back for such a small bike. Might that help the range too?

    Belt drive:
    I mean hell, if it’s keeping the air clean by running it, it might as well keep itself clean while being run. =) It’s not like it needs a chain with only 40 some odd HP.

    Keep the adjustable suspension on the final bike:
    I always hate that smaller bikes always tend to fall into the “budget” category of things, so end up with less than optimum components. I think many many riders would drool all over a light, moderate HP road bike that handled like a race bike. Or maybe I’m the odd person out here, as I covet bikes like Aprilia’s RS250 and the like or KTMs up announced 125 4 stroke. How many people would kill to see a 690 engine in that? Me! =)

    —-

    “Call me crazy, but I doubt that an oil company would use up more gasoline than it produces in order to produce said gasoline” -Oleg

    Hey Oleg, just to clarify for the sake of a friendly discussion, I was talking about “energy” used to get said product in comparison to “energy” output of said product. In the case of gas, sadly it takes more to get it than it produces. This doesn’t effect profits for a bunch of reasons. Mainly though, the oil company’s set the price to recoup any potential loss (to the sound of billions in profits every year).

    So while it is an inefficient fuel, it was a fairly readily available one; so well worth the time and effort to purse it.

    Not to mentionn the US, we subsidize the oil companies to keep the consumer prices lower than most of the rest of the world. I’m sure some of the readers of this site, would LOVE to have 4 dollar a gallon fuel prices instead of what they pay.

    Last thought…sadly, that 1 to 0.8 ration gets even worse when we start adding in the cost of gas to our environment and what it takes to correct the damage.

    Some of the government & private studies on the matter are pretty interesting you should check them out.

    In regards to Brammo’s bike. It’s all of the above reasons, and more, that products like these are being produced in the first place. If fuel was cheap and easy to get, and going to be available into the foreseeable future, we’d not even give these electric bikes a second thought. The mere fact that we are, and people are genuinely excited about a hip/forward thinking/well designed product like this only illustrates the fact that there is a problem with our current power resource…gas.

    yatta yatta yatta…

    • Oleg

      Jackie, sorry if my reply came out somewhat confrontational, I tend to get hung up on technicalities occasionally. In terms of amount of energy expended to process said gas currently you are probably right, but you have to keep in mind that electricity is much cheaper than gas itself, in that sense we are simply converting one form of energy into another – coal to electricity to refined gasoline. There is no such thing as “free” energy unless it comes without a storage medium – sunlight, wind, tidal, hydro, thermal. If you want to store it an easily usable way, power has to expended in order to convert it into that form – gas, coal, batteries, what have you. Trouble is, burning fossil fuels is convenient, and we are very much used to convenience. Gas is a better compact energy storage medium than the current batteries, and that is the main problem with electric vehicles that are available. Ultimately convenience comes before patriotism or environmentalism, it has always been this way and probably always will be. So really, going back to the topic of the article, the only way those bikes will become mainstream is if they become more convenient (or cheap) than other forms of transportation.

  • Carpe Mortis

    I don’t take it as a flame, and I understand your point. My commute is the 10/605, but only 35 miles round trip.

    Where I see the difference with the increased noise is in near stopped traffic, and on surface streets. Revving also acts a slightly less aggressive horn. Aural “warnings” are omni directional. High beams (wich you might as well hard wire on) and bright clothes require the others to be looking at least in your general direction.

    As newer cars become more and more sound proof, I suppose it will eventually become moot.

  • PeteP

    Finally! An e-Bike that looks cool! Not just an mutant bicycle anymore.

  • brettvegas

    Urg, my schadenfreude is acting up again.
    The harsh reality is that a 10kwh batt costs $15-18k usd. 6kwh is cheaper, but the management/charging systems are still in there, so it ends up being $8-10k. Brammo makes lots of promises. A profitable business model ain’t one of them. Very good at spending other folks money.
    Bike looks great, whats the margin?
    Selling product at a loss is not sustainable.
    Critical thinking is the basis of creativity.

  • Melis

    I would totally want one. But in the name of practicality, it needs a pilon seat. It’s ok if it’s just optional! Even a Duc or S1000RR or Vespa has one. There’s no reason it should only have a single seat, like their other bike.

  • Melis

    I really want one. But it really needs a pilon seat. Even a Ducati Streetfighter, or S1000RR or most any bike has a passenger seat, even if its tiny. Make it optional and I’ll pay for it. Because I would love to have this as my second bike, but also to use as my commuter bike. Sure beats the look of their other bike!

  • MTGR

    I read somewhere that the weight will vary since the 8.0 and 10.0 will require more and/or different batteries to get the increased range. I would assume that “390lb” spec is likely just for the 6.0.

    Any idea how much the weight will increase on the 8.0 and 10.0? Since hp and range are still limited (relative to ICE models) and weight means so much to overall performance (and handling) it would nice to get an idea of all the specs proposed.

  • http://www.brammo.com BrammoBrian

    MTGR,

    The 390lbs listed is for the 8.0, which is the bike that appears in these photos and video. We will announce more detailed specifications at the public launch of the bike at Laguna Seca in a week’s time.

    Point taken on the pillion seat. I don’t know many humans that would fit on the pillion of the S1000RR, but if it’s needed to get buy in from the “boss”, I get it. ;)

  • Melis

    @BrammoBrian. I actually considered the Enertia as my commuter bike. It would easily do my 25 mi round trip commute. But the lack of of a pillion seat mean it couldn’t replace my ICE bike. At least the Empulse could be my commuter bike, and also cover 90% of my riding….but only if it had the pillion seat!

  • Jon

    First-what’s an “ICE” bike?

    Second, I would love to have an Enertia. I’d love more to have the Empulse. The Enertia would handle my commute and most of my riding with a 40+ mile range. I think both bikes look great.

    Jon

  • http://www.xenophya.com Ian

    @Jon, ICE = Internal Combustion Engine

    Would love to try one out, I really hope this is a real step towards quietening the nay-sayers. Getting a bit bored of the same old comments.

    Bold claims of 100 miles and 100mph but that’s not the same as 100mph for 100 miles ;)

    I admire what Brammo are doing and they seem to be going about it in the right way with products ‘normal’ people might actually want. A long way to go but best of luck to them I say.

  • Jen H.

    I love this bike! However, I am a shorter female rider. I have a Ninja 250R right now it is the perfect height for me. Any word on the seat height for this one? It may be the deal breaker for me.

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