What’s faster? 2011 Kawasaki ZX-10R vs BMW S1000RR

Dailies -



Make no mistake, the 2011 Kawasaki ZX-10R has one goal and one goal only: to dethrone the BMW S1000RR from its liter bike throne. As far as evaluations of its ability to do so go, top speed is utterly irrelevant to real world riding, yet makes a compelling number anyways. Especially when it’s tested by New York’s most notorious pack of illegal, immoral street racers. So, in the hands of Skank and the One Armed Bandit, which bike is faster?

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Making 197bhp (in unrestricted form) to the BMW’s 193 and weighing 6kg less should be enough, right? Not quite. Skank (6’ 1” and 235lbs) reports that the ZX-10R’s aerodynamics at high speed are far from being optimal. One Arm (5’ 10” and 220lbs) is better able to tuck behind his S1000RR’s screen. Both bikes are modified, of course, the ZX-10R wouldn’t even be close unless it had its 20bhp restriction for the North American market lifted. The Kawasaki has an ECU reflash and Akrapovic pipe, which is the mod dealers are performing to bring power up to rest-of-world levels. The BMW has a slight advantage in that it’s wearing a full Akrapovic system. This is the same bike that last year recorded a GPS-verified 192mph top speed, which it appears to repeat here.

  • http://rider49er.blogspot.com Mark D

    You know the scene in “The Big Lebowski”, when The Dude is just laying on his rug listening to bowling on a walkman, all zen? I could sit and just listen to those bikes scream along the LIE for hours, and get my meditation on. Awesome.

    • jp182


      i’ve actually taken naps to that sound at track days

    • Bronson

      I took a nap once on top of the tower at NJMP. My girlfriend at the time said “how can you sleep with all those loud motorcycles going by?”. It was easy. Much easier in fact than listening to that bitch’s yapping, LOL!

  • Thom

    The two street racers ?

    Complete irresponsible IDIOTS

    The BMW ?

    The absolute King ! Its about time someone started kicking the Japanese’s butts at their own game !

  • http://www.brammofan.com Brammofan

    Your ad hoc legal dude here. Saying “HFL does not promote… any unsafe operation of a motor vehicle” doesn’t pass the red face test. Assuming the depicted operation of the bikes is “unsafe” (and need we debate this?), “promote” has more than one meaning. Sure, you’re not “actively encouraging” the activity. But “promote” also means to “give publicity to (a product, organization, or venture) so as to increase sales or public awareness.”
    Call it what you will, but you continue to give NY’s Fastest plenty of publicity. Does it increase HFL subscription sales? Maybe. Does it increase public awareness? Yes, but not in a good way.
    I’ve been driving on the highway when half a dozen sport bikes zoom past at double the speed limit. Those individuals, along with the outlaw biker gangs that supply meth throughout the midwest, represent two distinct groups of our community that should only receive publicity as the worst, the bad examples, the objects of contempt. Don’t we have enough trouble convincing our loved ones that motorcycling can be positive and fulfilling without having to defend against the image of the outlaw biker?

    • http://hellforleathermagazine.com Wes Siler

      We cover reality. This is reality. Ignoring it won’t make it go away.

      • Dumptruckfoxtrot

        Wes, there’s alot of things that are reality. Since you don’t cover the latest ice cream shop that opened in my town, I’m assuming you determine the scope and breadth of reality that you wish to cover.

        You are letting criminals that risk killing people provide reviews for your readership. Will you be doing reviews on which tourer offers the best cargo space for smuggling meth? I’m sure some people do that, sounds pretty real. How about the best handling motorcycles when you’re drunk? There’s all sorts of people in reality who do that all the time, might as well give them some coverage right?

        It is clear that you’re glamorizing these guys and you’re promoting them. You don’t have to ignore the actions of unsavory individuals, you also don’t have to give them a voice either.

        I like the way their bikes sound. RRRRRRREEEEE Zoooooom.

        • http://hellforleathermagazine.com Wes Siler

          That would actually be an awesome article.

          • Dumptruckfoxtrot

            Ah, I get it now. So all that talk of being an alternative to mainstream motorcycling journalism, you just meant sensationalism. Geraldo on two wheels.

            Edit: After considering it more, it’s more like a third-rate Vice magazine.

            • http://hellforleathermagazine.com Wes Siler


              • DoctorNine

                Well, if that’s the case. I’m waiting for the edition where you review biker chick tramp stamps, and give us a chance to vote on the top ten. Enquiring Minds!

            • http://hellforleathermagazine.com Grant Ray

              So when Brando and Benedeck and Hopper and Fonda do it then culture deems it “cinema” and when Danny Lyon does it then culture deems it “fine art” yet when HFL covers the counter culture of motorcycling which has been going on well before Youtube, we’re doing it for the kicks because all we care about is base sensationalism?

              • Dumptruckfoxtrot

                Yes, they weren’t having criminals make product reviews.

                • http://hellforleathermagazine.com Grant Ray

                  Who said we asked anyone to do anything?

                • Dumptruckfoxtrot

                  I wasn’t saying that you asked anyone to do anything Grant. I said you, as a publication, promoted criminals and glamorized their actions and used spread their reporting, in which they broke the law and risked people’s lives.

                • http://hellforleathermagazine.com Grant Ray

                  “Yes, they weren’t having criminals make product reviews.”

                  This comment explicitly states that HFL had criminals make a review, which is simply not true. I think your argument is about the same as saying that the “media” is to blame for the fallout from the actions of religious wingnuts like Westboro Church and hate groups like the KKK by covering them and allowing them to express their hatred.

                • Dumptruckfoxtrot

                  Well you could say that, I could say that your argument is the same as a Double Hitler but that probably wouldn’t be true either.

                  You’re right, I doubt you asked anyone to do anything, but that doesn’t change what the publication has written to frame these videos as a product review. The media didn’t frame coverage of Westboro Baptist with a headline stating “Who does god hate more?” or “What kind of sharpies do those dedicated picketers, the Westboro Baptist Church, use to write out their message on posterboard?”

                • stephan

                  I think on some sort of theoretical level at least it does sort of matter how and why this video was produced. Did the One Armed Skank in fact just send this video on unsolicited? Or was it more, “Hey borrow these bikes and a go-pro and see what happens :wink:wink:”. Im just kind of curious really. I don’t know where i fall in this debate really.

        • Joel

          Obviously the best motorcycle for drunk riding is the Can-Am snowmobile on wheels. Duh.

          • Dumptruckfoxtrot

            I’m not so sure, feeling like I look cool is really important to me when I’m drunk. I feel like, given past experience, I’d want to mount a Busa after a couple drinks, or anything else that has a fat ass. Let’s find some cool modern cafe racers who’ve tested it on video.

            • HammSammich

              “anything else that has a fat ass.”

              We’ve all been there after several drinks. ;)

        • http://www.postpixel.com.au mugget

          Hahahaha yes for the drunk riding test! I have a theory that one or two drinks will just relax you on a bike (as you should be anyway) and actually make you ride smoother. I used to have a beer on Friday afternoon before riding my Gixxer home. I’ll volunteer for the test – let me loose with a six-pack and a racetrack and watch the lap times tumble!

        • SodaO

          Grow a sack.

          • Dumptruckfoxtrot

            RawR! SNAP INTO A SLIM JIM! Hey Bro, you want to chug some Monsters and do a quadruple lutz riding a V-Max off a cliff while wearing our favorite Tapout shirts? We can be some tough guy motormen if we do, it’ll be tits.

      • Thom

        Wes ;

        Here’s a little Two Wheeled lesson hard learned , albeit of the self propelled variety eg Mountain Biking

        Back in the sports infancy several amongst us called for responsible riding etc forming the IBMA getting corporate sponsorship etc.

        One of the main points we all made was . ” Ride Irresponsibly and You’ll Lose all our Rights to Ride in More places than you can imagine ”

        Well as you may know , several of the print MB Magazines chose to take the angle of the irresponsible IDIOTS placing them on their Covers , in essence promotion Stupid Riding etc .

        And guess what ? 60% of the Trails that were open to MB riders in the 80′s are now closed , with hundreds on the list To Be Closed .

        Just because of the magazines that chose to endorse stupid riding ? No of course not . But HELPED an awfully lot along the way by them for sure .

        Just thought I’d pass that lesson on . Because , whether you and the others here are aware of it , there are strong moves afoot to shut down many Off Road riding areas , as well as banning On Road M/C in city centers etc. across the country .

        Think I’m exaggerating ? Don’t ! And FYI it’ll Piss Me Off if these things do come to pass . But ……. well …. think about it Wes .

        Please !

        • http://hellforleathermagazine.com Wes Siler

          Ignoring something has never made it go away. I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that a more organized, more proactive mountain bike community/industry could have prevented those trail closures and that they had very little to do with actual dangerous riding.

          Motorcycle manufacturers are selling 180bhp, 400lbs products to members of the public. This is how some people use them. Discussing that along with issues like lane splitting, safety gear, rider training etc is part of a conversation that embodies the breadth of motorcycling. Just pretending that everyone lives in Orange County, wears head to toe cordura and is 65 years old does not result in either a greater understanding of our sport.

          • Myles

            Covering a standing mile competition would be a little more responsible. And more accurate. You guys should go to The Texas Mile in October and cover it. Skank’s tired arm should try to bring a bike that runs 200mph all motor. Everybody wins.

            Just sayin’

            Full disclosure, I love these street run videos. I want to keep seeing them. But it would be nice to have some legit reporting at sanctioned events also.

          • Thom

            All my respect in the world for you Wes , but you have no idea just how well organized and funded ( by the likes of Toyota ,JEEP , Land/Range Rover , Subaru etc as well as the entire Bicycle Industry ) we were in the IMBA

            What did the access in is repeated incidents of stupidity on the trails , especially when others were involved .

            Toss in a few rescues required for MB riders acting like idiots and you had the recipe for failure .

            Oh the Horsey set had their money and influence for sure , but so did we . All it took was a few injuries to hikers Horse riders and their animals to do us in .

            And just because some fool is riding like an IDIOT does not mean you have to report it in even a vaguely positive manner Wes .

            You can report it in such a way as to not seem to be condoning the actions .

            I’m just saying ………

          • http://greatjoballweek.blogspot.com/ Case

            I live in Orange County. See you boobs at Fontana tomorrow. Infield day!

      • Mike

        To paraphrase Dan Rather, the journalist’s job is to report. Value judgements are the public’s responsibility.

        That said, video should be called “two irresponsible dumbasses manage not to kill anyone at 200mph on public roads” and not “which bike is faster?”

      • Glenngineer


  • ktaisa

    its only like 1% right?

  • spins

    I can’t wait for the follow up article, “who’s deader?”

    • http://www.brammofan.com Brammofan


    • http://www.facebook.com/beastincarnate Ben Incarnate

      I propose that we develop criteria to differentiate between levels of deadness.

      • http://rider49er.blogspot.com Mark D

        % of vital organs able to be donated.

        • http://www.facebook.com/beastincarnate Ben Incarnate

          Fantastic! I believe we’re set for that follow up article.

      • Aienan

        You guys are aware of why he is called “One Arm Bandit” right?

  • http://www.facebook.com/beastincarnate Ben Incarnate

    On the bright side, this beats the video of the morons here in Dallas who blocked off a major highway in tribute of a rider who died riding like an idiot.

    • http://www.facebook.com/beastincarnate Ben Incarnate

      On the down side, the local news picked up on it and ran a lengthy anti-sportbike tirade last night.

  • Myles

    I love how slow 100mph seems in this video.

    At what age is literbike insurance not ridiculously expensive? My insurer wants like 5k/yr for a cbr1k. 23, single, live in an apartment, park in a garage. This is the biggest hurdle for me. I have no problem dropping dough on a bike, but spending that much on insurance is just so wasteful.

    • Jeff

      Never as soon as you get one slip up for anything. Through the roof alice.

      • Myles

        Had speeding tickets in cars when I was a teenager, but been clear for a while. Two-years of riding with no incidents.

        • Tucker

          Infractions typcially take 3 years to clear… maybe that’s part of it?

    • http://greatjoballweek.blogspot.com/ Case

      Never. I got a pretty good broker and my coverage is expensive. But I ride a very fragile (relatively speaking), very fast 2009 cbr1kRR. I think I have one ticket on my record. I’m 37, btw.

      If you want to go fast on the cheap buy a 600 or literbike, track it. It’s cheaper than tickets and you won’t go to jail. Oh and it’s fun beyond description.

    • Kirill

      Full coverage on a literbike will always be stupid expensive, but your biggest hurdle is not being 25. My insurance basically halved after my 25th birthday. However, you can save a few bucks by getting something off-beat (a liter twin, FZ1, etc).

  • JMS

    I don’t understand what the fuss is all about.

    Grown ass men saying these videos promote poor behavior.

    Watching people go almost 200 mph doesn’t make me want to go 200 mph any more than watching Black Dynamite makes me want to go and Kung-Fu ghetto drug dealers and/or Richard Nixon.

    • aristurtle

      That’s ridiculous. Everybody wants to go and kung fu Richard Nixon.

      • Mr.Paynter


      • tomwito


    • Aienan

      Lets just all be clear.

      We *KNOW* doing close to 200 mph on a bike, on public streets is dangerous. Frankly, most of us do not have the guts to do it.

      Is what they are doing illegal? Yes. Does it mean we don’t want to see it? No. Is it going to encourage us to do it? Maybe not to the same extent, but frankly, I always drive speed limit on my bike anyhow…

      I think what rubs some people the wrong way is that it removes that hedge of risk that most people have put around themselves and to further insulate themselves, they need to have everyone living the way they do wrapped in bubble wrap.

      What Skank and One Armed Bandit are doing is removing that and living life dangerously, on the edge, and some people cannot accept that.

      In all honesty, I’ve seen the videos, the NYCF guys can seriously ride. I would be much more comfortable to have them in my city than the squids here who ride in flip flops, board shorts and a tank top… and they cannot ride. I stay away from them both in my truck and on my bike, just like Skank and OAB would stay away from me. For both our safety.

  • http://www.muthalovin.com the_doctor

    Reality: those guys are fat.

    • Austin Milbarge

      I’m not hip nor cool and from the west coast, is “fat” good or bad? It sounds like a east coast thing to say…

      • Roman

        I was thinking these guys are at least pretty big. I mean the bike is carrying 40 extra pounds easy, and that’s compared to a regular guy. Need to find some normal sized people to test these bikes’ full potential!

        • http://www.karinajean.com karinajean

          I read somewhere that for every 7 lbs you lose, you gain 1 hp on a motorcycle. so these guys have lost the use of about 6 hp by being 40 lb heavy.

          • http://rider49er.blogspot.com Mark D

            At those speeds, I *think* drag vastly outweights weight. So the effect would be minimal. Drag increases at the square of speed, I believe. Any physicists want to chime in?

            Like Skank said, not being able to get into a proper tuck hurts the top speed.

            • DoctorNine

              Yeah. It’s the square. At those kind of speeds, frontal area and shape is important as well though. See this:


            • Steven

              you think fat guys don’t have more drag?

        • Don

          A “normal guy” is 180 pounds? Where you at, Somalia?

  • Paul_55

    1. That tach is too bright for nighttime riding, seems like it would be a constant distraction.

    2. What a lame attempt at a comparison. In the 2nd gear roll on you can clearly hear and see the BMW get the jump which is all that’s needed to keep that distance for the win.

    They should have at least had another rider start them so there would be no advantage. Until then this amateur at best competition should have been left on YouTube where it belongs.

  • JonB

    If Hell is now Vice Magazine, then I’m willing to pay 4 times my current subscription rate.

    • Dumptruckfoxtrot

      Third rate Vice magazine is not Vice Magazine. The Rob Schneider of Vice Magazine.

    • http://www.lgdm.fr stempere

      More importantly, is this a do or a don’t?

      • JonB

        WFO is a do.

  • solidaridad

    C’mon guys–these guys are irresponsible, but back in high school when kids were burning out with their camaros and drag racing at 130mph all the uptight parents screamed the same thing as some of you are. And some of those kids died, yes, and they killed some people too, just as might happen with these guys. Some people I know would say that just riding a motorcycle is irresponsible and reckless. Do you really want to start regulating motorcycle output so that we can only go 120? 100? 80? As long as there are young men they will do stupid things. And as for HFL condoning this type of thing? C’mon–isn’t that why we like this magazine, b/c it isn’t some pre-packaged advertisement for all the motorcycle manufacturers? They are actually creative, and they present articles about bikes, lifestyle (sometimes outlaw), gear, racing, rowdy bike parties and all sorts of other stuff you could never find anywhere else! And we may not always agree or like what they write–I’m annoyed by the misspelling. The name is HELL for Leather by the way. And I sure hope they continue to cover these nuts, and the gangsters racing on the streets, along with all the other oddballs, and straight arrows they run into. Do we really want to sanitize this awesome mag? And sorry Wes, that’s all the fluffing I have time for…Quit whining and ride

    • Charlie

      Well, I’m not here for this unsanitized “fun”. Choosing to “report” this event and calling them NYC’s “most notorious pack” is glorification, plain and simple. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, you can make it go away, or people don’t buy bikes for top speed, but you would be neutral to let them jeopardize themselves and others without using the platform. HFL is making a choice in promoting them and therefore complicit to some extent. They didn’t ask them to do this, but did they prepare it for HFL? Might they be inclined to do the next bike test (and kill someone)? I’m all for outlaws (the diatribe against Victory) and rowdy parties, but this crosses the line for me. If I were an advertiser it would give me pause. Judging by the comments, I think most people see this as HFL squandering credibility. I for one do not yearn for the good ‘ol days when people died

      • solidaridad

        Point well taken Charlie–I also don’t yearn for the days when people died. I’ve seen a lot of people die from motorcycle accidents, and I know how close to death we all are even without going 190. I guess I just see a problem with HFL saying “well we won’t report on this b/c it is promoting dangerous riding” since it is only a short hop away from the way HFL reports on things now to a place where they are excluding a lot of things b/c they might upset some people or promote lawlessness. Then it is a slippery slope to banality, and mediocrity. It is a fine line.

        • Charlie

          But how is this meaningful reporting or information. Look at all the comments. It’s just about glorifying an outlaw lifestyle. No one cares about the bikes. I saw a guy wheelie down an exit ramp. Is that worthy of attention? When it’s seriously irresponsible, in my view, it’s worth a second thought to give it legs. And let’s face it, this is a deliberate intent to glorify and stir the pot. I’m not a hater. I will not tolerate prejudice in any forum. Suggesting that this kind of reckless behavior is acceptable is in fact unacceptable.

    • Joe

      Well said, I cannot agree more. If you want sanitized, politically correct and “responsible”, then go watch Motorweek. I’ll take more HFL.

  • http://www.brammofan.com Brammofan

    So much here to comment on.

    My basic points:

    1. Your legal disclaimer is not defensible. I made that comment because I WUV HFL and don’t want you to get sued by the estate of Squidly McSquid.

    2. I love fast bikes and think a comparison of these two would be great – but must we do it on a public highway? A 500 pound projectile moving at 150mph is likely to do a lot of damage before it comes to rest.

    3. Not asking you to ignore NY’s Fastest. But there is ground between ignoring them and exalting them.

    How about “NY’s Fastest and the Polish Ninja Squid – Compare and Contrast”? There’s an article for you.

    • http://hellforleathermagazine.com Wes Siler

      There’s plenty of spec and track comparisons out there, this is something different and relevant.

      • BMW11GS

        Relavent to…?

        I don’t mean this sarcastically. I am just curious.

        • Richard


      • Your_Mom

        Actually, this is salacious. Relevant, not so much. When my subscription expires, I will not renew.

        • http://www.twitter.com/wessilerfanclub sean (the roommate)


      • http://www.facebook.com/beastincarnate Ben Incarnate

        So, what’s the plan with those types of comparisons, Wes? Leave ‘em to the print mags until such a time as they die out and manufacturers beg HFL to do them?

        My issue with the available comparisons is the appearance of compromised integrity to favor the latest thing. Or, in other cases, ignoring obvious facts, like that the ZX-10R won’t compete with the S1000RR until it’s been modded.

        • http://hellforleathermagazine.com Wes Siler

          We’re trying to make the kind of publication that can appeal to a new generation of rider. As such, the tired conventions of motorcycle content don’t necessarily hold much appeal for us. Instead, we’ll create the kind of content you guys actually want to read.

          • http://www.facebook.com/beastincarnate Ben Incarnate

            What is it about the conventional comparisons that you feel readers don’t want?

            I’m curious about the overall direction, though I don’t mind if HFL decides to stick to riding impressions and judging each bike on its own merit.

            • http://www.twitter.com/wessilerfanclub sean (the roommate)

              “What is it about the conventional comparisons that you feel readers don’t want?”

              Current Comparisons Formula
              1 – state some of the specs for 2 or 3 bikes
              2 – have a couple pro’s with infintely more skill than i will ever have ride them around a track
              3 – give me a few reasons why they are both equal or both good so that in the end i dont really have an idea of which one is better

              there is nothing about this method that can be considered informative or relevant.

              i didnt feel the same after watching the NYCF vid. there isn’t a chance in hell i would ever try and take it that far (for i am a huge pussy), but im interested in what the guys THAT ARE ALREADY DOING IT REGARDLESS have to say.

              • http://www.facebook.com/beastincarnate Ben Incarnate

                Good list, Sean, and I’d agree. I didn’t want to throw out my own thoughts initially and lead the answer.

                That was the direction my question was headed: is there a way to do comparisons and still give readers what they want? Or is it the act of comparing itself that readers don’t want?

                When I read comparisons in a mag, I think about how HFL could do them better.

                • http://www.twitter.com/wessilerfanclub sean (the roommate)

                  people absolutely want comparisons. we (or maybe just I) are all comparison shoppers. I spend a ton of time reading reviews of stuff, especially stuff that is hard to try out for myself (motorcycles, gear). 3/4 of what wes and i talk about is comparing different bikes and sharing our opinions on their strengths and weeknesses (and yes, the other 1/4 is me either trying to convince wes not to do something or that he really isn’t THAT pretty).

                  what people want, in my opninion, are comparisons that are relevant to how they would use something with information that is applicable to their lives.

                  -comparisons with no winner are no help
                  -comparisons with bikes no one will ever have are no help
                  -comparisons that dont give you knowledge about how the product will perform in your life are no help

                  in the case of litre bikes, most of the people that buy them want the fastest thing out there and this little video tells you that. if it were a test about cafe racers, the video wouldnt be about speed, it would be about which one looks coolest parked outside of some hipster spot, because that’s what influenced the bikes’ purchase.

                • http://www.facebook.com/beastincarnate Ben Incarnate

                  We agree across the board on this comparison stuff. Hopefully, that’s what Wes meant by his statement. Otherwise, I authorize a swift kick to the balls.

                • http://hellforleathermagazine.com Wes Siler

                  We’re NOT trying to be a consumer resource and I think there’s a significant gap in the market for such a publication. Quality, nuts and bolts product reviews and comparisons take significant time, effort and money to produce, which is why you don’t typically see motorcycle media do a good job with them. I’d love to see an Edmunds.com for bikes.

                • http://www.facebook.com/beastincarnate Ben Incarnate

                  What do you mean by “we are NOT trying to be a consumer resource” Wes? There are a fair number of product reviews on HFL. I’ve felt like it’s something you absolutely would do if time and resources were available – we’re just not there yet. Am I wrong?

                • http://hellforleathermagazine.com Wes Siler

                  There’s a difference between the kind of compelling content people want to read and dry service material likes this:


          • Dumptruckfoxtrot

            Could you please deflate your ego for just a second? You are not a motorcycling vanguard movement. I’m in my mid-20′s, I have many friends that are aged between their early to mid-twenties that don’t want to subscribe because more and more this site looks like a joke. Tough guy motorcyclists and journalists who give their asshat drinking buddies editorials are not everything that this “new generation of rider” wants.

            This is the kind of content I want to comment on, it isn’t the kind I like to read and I’m not alone in that sentiment.

            • http://www.twitter.com/wessilerfanclub sean (the roommate)

              any suggestions on what you would like to see more of? not as a sarcastic or combatant question, but out of curiousity, what kinds of things would you like to see?

              i give wes shit all the time for stories i think are boring or dumb, but i thik that if im going to complain, i should also be willing to tell him when i think i have an idea that people might find interesting.

              roommate disclaimer: he often ignores me or doesnt run with it (mostly due to them being bad ideas i had while drinking Jameson or due to some legal nonsense and something he calls “being sued”) so dont get made if he doesnt do it or email you back. but a quick email about something you think is neat cant hurt.

              • Dumptruckfoxtrot

                I do have a tendency to be too negative. I do like this site, I am just disappointed that the money, time, or will isn’t there to do some of the articles that made me love this site to begin with. HFL is completely correct that most other motorcycle publications don’t offer compelling content. The Vs. Features, Field Tests, Initial Reports, and Excursions are all absolutely amazing top notch work. When Grant used The Wild One, Easy Rider and probably The Bikeriders (which I regrettably haven’t read yet) as examples earlier I would have zero qualms comparing past HFL work to those.

                Some of those articles made my friends vow to get their own bikes and I think they tapped in to what riding motorcycles is all about while offering a distinctive design. Double the price of subscription would be worth digging up those gems alone. I had hoped that a subscription model would allow more quality features but that doesn’t seem to be the case. HFL used to be my favorite publication, I look forward to a time that I can honestly say that is still is.

                • http://www.twitter.com/wessilerfanclub sean (the roommate)

                  “Some of those articles made my friends vow to get their own bikes and I think they tapped in to what riding motorcycles is all about while offering a distinctive design. Double the price of subscription would be worth digging up those gems alone”

                  like which ones?

                  they do a piece about an awesome trip we take (the kind of thing that gets me stoked on riding) and people complain that a photoblog of our lives isnt jouralism. a piece about some dudes riding litre bikes as fast as possible (the reason most people buy them) and its irresponsible. a piece about some electric bike thats super fast that none of us will ever see, let alone buy and its boring (ok, ok…i said that one)

                  your complaint seems more that the motorcycle industry isnt exciting you. it’s wes and grant’s job to try and report on as much as possible in the realm of motorcycling, as well as throw in some fun stuff of their own. if what is happening in motorcycling this week is offensive or boring, don’t read it, but don’t blame them for not making enough happen. if there are cool things that they are missing out on or unaware of, help make them aware. if their own personal stories or ideas aren’t interesting, submit your own. but complaining that the news is boring is just kind of silly.

                • http://hellforleathermagazine.com Wes Siler

                  Yeah, we always want to be doing more big, ambitious features than we’re doing, no matter how many of them we’re putting out.

                  But, I don’t think we’re doing any fewer now than we’ve done before. We put out a MASSIVE amount of content, especially considering that we’re just three guys operating on a slim budget. I counted a while back and I do a couple hundred thousand words a month, personally. That’s one, maybe two books.

                  Yesterday was slow. We were working on an article about riding the Jack Pine, only to be asked not to run that article. Instead, you got some nice original riding shots of it. Further down the front page is one of those Excursions you reference. You get exclusive pics of the new MotoCzysz. Last night, Sean and I shot a feature that’s being written by someone with an interesting perspective to offer. We’re currently planning epic trips on a Goldwing, Triumph Tigers and a Ural sidecar. In the last two weeks or so you’ve had editorials from JT Nesbitt (who’s embarking on a major feature trip for us in the next couple of days), David Edwards (who’s doing some whacky testing on a new bike for us right now) and Michael Uhlarik, who will be chronicling his attempts to race an electric motorcycle all this summer.

                  Re-reading this comment, I really fail to see grounds for your complaint other than that you’re maybe wearing blinders.

                • http://www.facebook.com/beastincarnate Ben Incarnate

                  It’d be interesting to have either a weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly recap of the big/key/best features on HFL. Maybe even a digital mag one day. It’s easy to lose perspective with the sheer volume.

                  For example: One mag arrived yesterday with some news that I swore I read here several months ago, only to realize that it was a matter of weeks instead.

                • http://hellforleathermagazine.com Wes Siler

                  We’re working on a newsletter. But, while the idea of a recap sounds nice, it’s simply doesn’t cater to the way in which you consume your media these days. I think understandably we optimize our presentation to fit that rather than attempt to mimic print in a digital format.

                • http://www.facebook.com/beastincarnate Ben Incarnate

                  Wes – I’d bitch if I didn’t dig the HFL style versus a more traditional approach. I’m reliable like that. I follow sites through RSS and I’m used seeing recaps/highlights of the past week or month. At minimum, it’s a good reminder, even if it’s just a list of hyperlinks. The newsletter will likely fill that role.

                  For now, I will keep the faith. But tomorrow, you never know. I might threaten to withhold my subscription fees. Oh noes!

                • Dumptruckfoxtrot

                  Ok, I understand that you guys really want to have an argument with a straw man.

                  I am not bored, I’m pissed that *any* of my money is going for trash like this article and JT Nesbitt’s pompous ass rants. Even though the amount is slight, the principle of it is the same for me. It is becoming increasingly clear that this publication is being geared towards people who think tough guy posturing is really rad. Apparently I’m no longer your target audience, I just like riding my motorcycle sans juvenile blowhard bullshit.

                • Eric

                  I agree with earlier comments asking for a recap. It is often hard for me to find past articles. My favorite article of last year was the 10 best articles summary. I’ve used it many times to re-read some of the best of that year.

                • http://www.twitter.com/wessilerfanclub sean (the roommate)


                  “Ok, I understand that you guys really want to have an argument with a straw man.”

                  i dont even know what this means. i dont want to have an argument with anyone, i would love to have an intelligent discussion with someone who thinks something differently than i do.

                  And i dont think your argument holds any weight. JT isn’t being paid for his rant. Neither are the NYCF guys. HFL is covering what is happening in motorcycling and if you don’t think Nesbitt challenging an OEM to make something that people actually want is relevant, you’re an idiot. it wasn’t news because of the way it was said and no one’s reponse was “sweep the leg!” learn to look past that into how cool it is that people care enough about American Motorcycling to challenge the companies and think about what that can mean down the road.

                  and seriously, enough with the “well i pay good money for this!” argument. you dont. you pay HFL like you would a bum on the street. your money is going to a publication, some of the stuff it produces you will like and other stuff you will not like. show me a magazine where i like every article in it, and i will kick wes in the balls for you.

                  and tough guy posturing? are we reading the same magazine? is every conversation about quarter mile times, about how much chrome you have on your bike, or about how much beer you can fit in your belly? none of the dudes that run this magazine or even us dudes that hang out with the dudes that run this magazine could be considered very manly and definitely not macho.

                  i fully support being ciritical and pushing for more out of something you think has the potential. i love apple products and i criticize the shit out of them, but i dont just complain that they suck, i have an opinion about how they could be better. just be intelligent. dont wave your $2 threats around or sit back and talk about how everything sucks, but not offer suggestions on how it could be better. if you really cant handle that, then you’re right…you’re not the target audience.

                • Dumptruckfoxtrot

                  @ Sean
                  The straw man comment is that you’re saying that I’m saying something, which I’m not, and then arguing against it. Kind of like quoting “I pay good money for this” when I never stated that. In fact, I stated that it was a slight amount.

                  It isn’t a threat, I’m expressing that I feel like myself, and other subscribers, are being run off. If someone doesn’t like the direction the publication is going then they are told to fuck themselves and that they’re an idiot in so many words. People express an opinion on the content that isn’t the same as the creators of the site, or their buddies, and all of a sudden they’re the enemy. Instead of doing that, maybe HFL should just note that a sizable contingent of their readership does not appreciate content like JT Nesbitt’s Rants and New York’s Fastest. If JT isn’t being paid for his diatribes, well I think that cheapens the content that is paid for.

                  I appreciate challenging American OEMs, I appreciate some coverage of NY’s Fastest (which was already done), I appreciate comparisons that are different from other publications, I just don’t think that the way it’s been done has been professional lately. If this was just a Livejournal I guess I wouldn’t care, but for some they’d like it to be as good as any other publication out there.

    • Kerry


      You are not HFL’s legal department, nor are you affiliated with them in any way. I should know because I am. If you have a valid legal concern you are more than welcome to email me directly (my email address is public on this site) instead of “grandstanding” it for the spectators in the comments section just to advance your own arguments about the irresponsive behavior.

      Also becareful what you say concerning legal advice in the public comments section of this site – certain statements could find us involuntarily your client making a malpractice claim against your insurance. And believe me, none of us want that.

      I am more than happy to entertain your (I assume) non professional opinion on the disclaimer (which by the way I did not write for this article and Grant and Wes: you really need to give me more than a 2 hour heads up next time). Please by all means craft an email detailing your points and attach your resume, or at the very least your state bar ID number so I know how much weight I should assign to your opinion.

      • http://www.facebook.com/beastincarnate Ben Incarnate

        Keeping only the first paragraph of your comment would clearly communicate your point without violating the “don’t be a dick” clause.

        Brammofan brought up a valid concern aside from his opinion of the behavior itself. It’s poor form to suggest that a concerned reader will be ignored if they lack adequate credentials. Imagining Wes replying with something similar in one of his bike writeups, or Grant after one of his photography spreads, makes me cringe.

        I’ll just try to imagine Wes some other way, courtesy of Sean’s creepy candid photos.

        • Kerry


          As I said before my email is open and public on this site and he is free to send me a concerned email about legal matters concerning this site any time he wants. Doing it in an open forum for others to read (and further dispensing legal advice) is….well….how should I put this….standing on my Johnson for lack of a better phrase.

          Actually Brammofan’s credentials are quite public and I am well aware that he is in fact a licensed attorney (info I got from his linked in page) and the fact he runs a “consulting business” which I assume to be his private practice. I am not saying that he is actually sniffing around for a little business here, but I am saying (absent knowing the man in person) he would have motive to.

          Personally, a little professional courtesy would have been nice. I don’t go on to his brammofan blog and dispense legal advice there. Also Attorneys are held to a different standard than other professions considering advice they give and the forums in which they give it. Right now there is a fractured opinion as to whether it is ethical or even legal for an Attorney to render a legal opinion over the internet so really by pointing that that his opinion is “not professional” is doing him a favor, were he rendering a professional legal opinion there is a world of crap that could come down on both our heads and neither of us wants that.

          But Ben, as to your reference to the “don’t be a dick” clause? see my “standing on my johnson” comment. I am not a journalist here, nor is this entertainment for me. His comments have far greater implications for HFL and myself personally (or rather my personal malpractice insurance) and there is more at play here than I think you understand. Ca va?

          By the way, this wouldn’t have been nearly an issue worth of my comment had brammofan not been a contributer or the subject of an article in the past.

          • http://www.facebook.com/beastincarnate Ben Incarnate

            That’s a solid response, Kerry. I appreciate the clarification, as well as the additional dick reference.

            Now, back to our regularly scheduled moral outrage!

      • http://www.brammofan.com Brammofan

        Email sent.

  • Mike

    Those two assholes are going to kill somebody. Keep that action on the track where you’re less likely to ruin some poor bystander’s life.

    • Joe

      Because there are so many bystanders on the LIE at 3am.

      • FiveG

        Actually, there are.

    • http://hellforleathermagazine.com Wes Siler

      go back and read the interview with them, I think it helps give an insight into their motivations.


      • Mike

        Yeah, I read it when it was first posted. Those guys are delusional if they think what they’re doing isn’t criminally dangerous. I don’t care if one of them falls off the bike at 150 and loses an arm, they know the risks. But they’re not superheroes, they make mistakes, and eventually one of those mistakes is going to kill someone.

        It’s interesting to see how your opinion of this kind of thing changes as you age. At 16 I would have been like “Yeah! Fuck the police!” but at 32? Screw those guys.

        • Your_Mom


  • HammSammich

    Oh boy…here we go again with the NY’s Fastest induced comment-storm.

    • Restless Lip Syndrome

      +1 Said it before I could.

    • zipp4

      Yup. Someone just renewed their 15 minutes.

  • Joe

    I would feel safer having these guys go past me at 190mph at night than the truly psychotic act of driving the LIE during rush hour (bumper to bumper at 80-90mph) traffic. I doubt the New Yorkers on the road even notice them much (except the cops).

  • Michael

    Jerkoff squids.

  • Scott-jay

    Ran into HFL’s disclaimer before perusing Comments.
    HFL sizes-up Subject piece and includes a disclaimer.
    Appears bespoke promotion to me.

  • ike6116

    Never have I been more ashamed of my fellow HFL reader.

    Go somewhere else with your “moral outrage.”

    What’s done is done. I don’t like NYCF either but I found the article mildly interesting and Im certainly not getting my panties in a bunch about it.

    • Patrick

      +1 What a bunch of old ladies.

      • Von Scotch

        Yeah, well said. Never thought so many readers sat down to pee.

    • dux

      I’m with ya, brotha. Cool video and two cool bikes.

  • Ben

    Thank you Wes. Thank you for covering an important, all be it objectionable part of motorcycling. It is refreshing to see truthful and frank coverage of an “underground” sportbike scene instead of some sensationalist “fox news” bullshit.

  • Skank NYCF

    Acually, Im not fat, I dont have 2 chins or a big beer belly. Im quite fit, muscular and athletic. Just because some states the fact that they’re 235lbs doesn’t automatically mean they’re fat. You know what it takes to hold on to a bike at 170+mph for 40+ miles while being crunched up as tight as possible so you can to obtain max speeds? A lot.
    Here’s more info on me: I’m 40 years old, married, 2 kids 1 of witch is 6 weeks old and I’ve been riding these roads religiously at these speeds since 1994. So when should I die? Maybe one day.People cry about one of us killing someone but the odds are very unlikely. Odds are one of you are most likely to get killed before me.
    Also, no one from HFL asked NYCF to do anything. The bikes belong to NYCF and so do the video cameras. And we use Sony Handycams not the piece of shit GoPros.

    • Kirill

      I hope you’ve got a good life insurance policy on yourself. It won’t buy your wife her husband back or your kids their father, but it at least might pay off the mortgage and buy them a college education.

  • Skank NYCF

    And neither bike got the jump. We made a few videos and I took the 2 best. Yes, a few times we messed up and one of us got the jump and thats why those videos are not up.

    • Adam

      So which is faster?

  • Skank NYCF

    The video says it all.

  • Mattro

    if there weren’t a paywall, i could see all the outrage, but, really, this is premium content in the same way skinemax is premium television — you’re getting some adult entertainment in the exchange.

    yes, they’re lamentable dicks who are ruining everything for everyone. yes, reporting on lamentable dicks ruining everything for everyone — even from an implicitly sympathetic angle — is relevant journo-blogging.

  • carbon

    Part of me thinks this is cool, but the Dad part of me thinks, “What if they hit my car and killed my kids in the backseat?” Sorry for the buzzkill.

    • Skank NYCF

      Maybe you shouldnt be on the road at 4am on a Saturday night with your “kids” in the back seat.

      • lupin

        wow.. the Skank just called bluff at the safety of general public. Next up, which one crash in the semi deeper? ZX10 vs S1000R. Please keep up with that report.

      • Greg

        Our apologies for forgetting that public roads have curfews for responsible citizens. BTW; what exactly are the posted hours for narcissistic attention whoring scum to use the roads as their personal playground again?

        • Sean Smith

          It could just be me, but I get the distinct impression that what NYCF does has very little to do with attention whoring.

      • Ian

        Wow! I was indifferent toward you retards until I read that one. Now I get it loud and clear.

      • http://www.brammofan.com Brammofan

        The next time my child goes into convulsions at 3am and I have to decide whether to take her to the hospital or honor your right to break the law, I’ll remember this. What a fucking moron.

      • animated

        Selfish fucking cunt.

      • carbon

        Damn Humungus, you’re turning us on with all that hot “Road Warrior” bad-ass talk.

  • Kirill

    Next up, a profile of two dudes trying to see who has the loudest Harley, or are we entertaining only specific variants of motorcycle riding d-bags?

    • Sean Smith

      I’m actually writing a story that details how long I can wheelie wearing only shorts, a helmet and flip-flops, and another to see just how far you can ride like that before you get a serious sunburn/windburn.

      • Kirill

        I’m still trying to figure out how you’d shift in flip-flops without hurting yourself (besides “very carefully”)

        • http://www.twitter.com/wessilerfanclub sean (the roommate)

          shifting in vans hurts, i couldnt imagine sandals….last time i ever left the house and forgot boots.

          • Kirill

            I rode in Chucks once. And only once. Never again.

        • Sean Smith

          It’s not too bad, you just need to make sure to catch the shifter with the leather toe-strap. I uh, moved a bike wearing flip-flops once.

        • http://www.facebook.com/beastincarnate Ben Incarnate

          Get yourself one of those shifter boots. Little padded neoprene thing meant to keep your pretty shoes clean. It might help.

      • http://rider49er.blogspot.com Mark D

        Anybody want to do a comparison test as to which brand of metal brush is best for scraping asphalt out of the overcooked macaroni that used to be your leg?

        • http://www.twitter.com/wessilerfanclub sean (the roommate)

          actually not a bad idea.

      • eric

        Hey, I saw this guy yesterday! I should have asked him.

  • Brendan

    Great accent.

  • Marlon


  • Andy Keech

    aren’t all you worry-warts missing your retarded Discovery channel ‘documentary’ about completely retarded and unfeasible apocalyptic scenarios? a guy rides bike really really fast, crashes it, he dies, world goes on.

    he is still fucking cool, and you are jealous you don’t have the freedom and balls to do it yourself. these fellows are out to risk no one’s safety but their own, and i am sure would do anything they could to avoid injuring anyone else if the worst did happen. not that these things are impossible, but maybe tomorrow you’ll get bit by the zombie-death-aids-west nile-mosquito of swine flu and die a long painful death. seriously, worry about something worth while, like Survivor or something you old farts.

    • Paul B

      To me the issue isn’t if the the guy rides bike really really fast, crashes it, he dies, but that bike and rider are not going to come to a stop without running into something else. If he crashes and kills himself, cool, post the video. But what happens when he kills someone else?

      • Sean Smith

        They might. Catch a wobble on a straight road, or get shot to the moon when the back end comes loose exiting a corner and you may end up sliding in a straight line for a while. You could end up hitting absolutely nothing.

  • Isaac

    Man I wanna go on the I-5 rightnow!!!!!!


    I haven’t topped out in about 3 years.

  • http://www.postpixel.com.au mugget

    Hell yeah. Nice one HFL – may not have seen this vid if it wasn’t for you guys. I was wondering when New York’s Fastest would show up again…

    Haters gonna hate… keep up the good work, HFL!!

    • Ian

      How, exactly, does criticism of seriously irresponsible behavior and criminal disregard for the safety of others qualify a person as a “hater?”

      And why is it that the only people who use that word also wear flat brim baseball caps?

      • http://www.twitter.com/wessilerfanclub sean (the roommate)

        while im on HFL’s side on this one, i have to say that you have a fantastic point mr ian.

      • http://www.postpixel.com.au mugget

        Damn, man – just chill out. Some guys just went out to ride their bikes – that’s all that happened. I’m not calling anyone making constructive criticism a hater – that’s more a trendy meme for everyone who starts the name-calling. “Those guys are irresponsible dicks” = haters.

        Also I have never worn a flat brim baseball cap. Never worn a cap sideways either.

  • Mr.Paynter

    Has anyone who complained NEVER EVER sped?

    We all speed, may be a little, may be a lot, may be on a track or on the highway after dark, we have motorcycles for crying out loud!

    YES:I think these guys are too gangster and arrogant, and they may pay for that one day…
    BUT: Any one of us could kill someone, possibly ourselves, every time we ride, even below the speed-limit.

    I agree they’re pushing those odds a lot harder then the rest of us but the what-if applies to any and all of us!

    The article has provided food for thought if nothing else and that’s my subscription worthwhile.

  • http://www.damiengaudet.blogspot.com damien

    All safety points aside, I think a lot of commenters are upset simply because it seems like HFL actually LIKES these guys!

    • http://www.facebook.com/beastincarnate Ben Incarnate

      Kind of, Damien. People are upset that HFL appears to be promoting or glorifying these guys, thus supporting the behaviors seen above. Those behaviors are the same that turn the public against riders and encourage new laws to be made, such as the recent attempt in Texas. To that end, I completely understand the opinion. That’s a concern of mine, as well.

      For my own part, I’m not that worried about these guys slaughtering millions in catastrophic accidents. Obviously, they ride far better than I do and they’ve been at it for years. I’m more concerned with the collateral damage of viewing in the form of moral outrage from non-riders and riders with skills like mine combined with the self-control of Leroy Jenkins.

      • Spencer

        +1 Well said and the WOW comment FTW!

    • http://www.twitter.com/wessilerfanclub sean (the roommate)

      this issue isnt as black and white as that. you can like something or someone and even learn from it without saying you think its a good idea. theyre gonna do it anyway, and i know i’m curious about the results.

      as someone who is suffering God’s wrath in the form of being forced to live with the long-haired idiot (as well as being a fairly new rider), i can promise you that im given infite warnings before being tossed the keys to any super bike and scolded to ride at my own pace and take my time and not try aything i dont feel completely safe and comfortable with (as well as being told i need to dress more like a power ranger).

      liking these guys (not necessarily thinking all of their actions are the smartest and most responsble) and learning from the shenanigans they pull really isnt worth 120+ outraged comments. you twist your own throttle.

      • http://www.twitter.com/wessilerfanclub sean (the roommate)


      • super20

        Ride at your own pace – last guy to the party is still at the party. Dress like a power ranger. The tattoo models dig that. Really. (they don’t but only the really weird ones dig lots of scars).
        Oh, and pick up Lee Parks book “Total Control” if for no other reason than his discussion of fear.

        • Sean Smith

          Plus, Lee Parks sells strap-ons.

          • super20

            best part is to the left of the strap-ons is a “size chart”.

        • http://www.postpixel.com.au mugget

          Awesome – thanks for the tip on that book, I am going to buy a copy.

          Another book if you’re interested in riding technique and the mental side of riding is The Upper Half of the Motorcycle: On the Unity of Rider and Machine by Bernt Spiegel. He is a behavioral psychologist so it’s a very different take on riding. Very enlightening, for me at least.

        • http://www.twitter.com/wessilerfanclub sean (the roommate)


          i wasnt implying that i needed any convincing of any of those things. just that, as one of their friends, it was a reflecton on their attitudes towards riding. i abosolutely ride at my own pace (though i dont always dress like a power ranger unless we’re doing something athletic). and i am always reading books on becoming a better rider.

          i was just trying to say that even though the HFL dudes might like the NYCF guys, they aren’t encouraging anyone to go out and ride like them. im sure we all know, and may even like, people who make decisions we may not find responsible. any friend of wes’s will tell you that.

          • super20

            @sean (the roommate)

            Gotcha, figured as much just just throwing in my “me too”, especially on the ride your own pace. I’ve been guilty of riding over my head in the past, luckily it didn’t cost me much more than a bruised ego.

            For the record, I’m 40+, wear a full ‘stich nearly all the time (except today I’m in mesh gear for the commute because it’s 100 degrees in Philly) and for the most part stay out of triple digits – even on weekend rides I take it easy on the straights between twisty bits, which generally leaves me at the back of the pack. Don’t care, have a 5 year old and a 5 month old at home.

            That said, I enjoy reading the NYCF stuff, too. I don’t plan on doing a triple back flip, but it doesn’t mean I don’t like watching the X-Games.

            There are lots of sites/mags that do product comparos – “shootout at the track” and “super street shootout” – it’s like a formula where x, y, and z bikes are plugged in and the requisite charts are generated. That’s not why I subscribe to HFL. I subscribe to HFL for the “other” part of motorcycles. Like NYCF. Like the Thunderdrome features, and the coverage of Motocyz at the TT.

            In short, I totally agree with you.

  • Paul B

    I guess as long as they wear their helmets, its all good.

    • http://www.twitter.com/wessilerfanclub sean (the roommate)

      i working on that article….im shooting for at least 190 hate comments on it.

  • MotoRandom

    I am amazed about how many “motorcyclists” hate people who enjoy riding their motorcycles in even the slightest risky fashion. Guess what? That’s part of the fun for a lot of us. I’m sorry, but I am not going to ride over in the right lane, covered head to toe in armor that is covered in neon yellow nylon, doing the speed limit and show the world how I finely I represent motorcycling. People who hate motorcycles are just going to hate motorcycles. It doesn’t really matter if you have squids screaming around at high speeds or pirates riding around with no helmets and loud pipes. That whole “hurts the image of motorcycling” argument was being thrown around in the 1950s because of the post-war “biker gangs”. For the last 50 or 60 years there have been uptight safety nanny “motorcyclists” crying huge crocodile tears about how we are going to be legislated out of existence. Amazingly, we’re still here. Europe has far more restrictive laws regarding motorcycles and yet there is a huge and active motorcycle counter culture there.

    For the other big argument “who cares about their safety, innocent bystanders will die!”. Prove it. It’s 2011. We live in digitally connected world. All of the raw carnage on the highways gets regularly reported and is easy to search. Shut up with the opinions and present facts. Go find some reports of someone’s kids being hurt by a motorcycle hitting their car at high speed. I went down this road a few months ago when someone was making the same claims about how dangerous squids are to pedestrians. I did extensive searches on pedestrians being killed by motorcycles. I was not able to find one case where the rider was charged with reckless endangerment to the pedestrian. I found several where it was still under investigation, but no charges filed. What surprised me was several case where the pedestrian violated the right of way of the motorcycle. In most of those cases the rider crashed and sustained injuries. As pedestrians are not required to carry any insurance you can pretty much guess that the injured rider was on the own unless they wanted to sue the estate of the idiot that ran out in front of them. Of course that would make the rider an insensitive asshole for making the idiot’s family grieve like that. Where’s the outrage against jaywalkers?

    To Wes and Grant: Thank you for presenting the real world of motorcycling with all of it’s bumps and warts and not hiding behind some morality crusade. Motorcycling has always been raw and dangerous and I for one sure as hell hopes it’s stays that way.

    To Skank and One Arm: Ride hard, ride fast, Fuck The World.

    • http://rider49er.blogspot.com Mark D

      Hear hear. I ride faster than the speed limit, like *all* of you do. I’ve gone 100 mph, and rationalized to myself as, “Well, fuck it, I’m a good enough rider to enjoy this speed and not die. Why did I buy a bike that can do 100 mph if I’m not going to do it?! I’ll just do it in a responsible way at a responsible time of day on a responsible road.” We *all* rationalize our own riding this way.

      They’re just way better riders than us, so they can do 187!

      • Kirill

        I don’t thing being willing to top out a bike on an empty bit of highway makes you a good rider. Really, any retard can pull it off if they don’t care about the consequences (the biggest risk you have is some drunk plowing into you or some debris on the road since at those speeds, the cops probably won’t bother).

        Skank just comes off as an asshole in his comments and I’m of the opinion that you shouldn’t engage in this sort of fuckery if you’ve got a family to go home to and kids that would prefer to grow up with a dad that’s not dead or in jail.

        • http://www.twitter.com/wessilerfanclub sean (the roommate)

          no, topping a bike out in a straight line does not make you an amazing rider. taking turns at 140/150/160 is fairly impressive though. however, the point wasnt to brag about what good riders they are, it was to see how these two bikes compare when ridden by people who have proven their skill outside of HFL comment pages.

          and yes, skank comes off as an asshole. he probably is an asshole. so are lots of people. kobe’s an asshole and rape’s young girls, have you all stopped watching basketball?

          while i wouldnt want kobe around my little sister and i wouldnt want skank around my little brother, i will let them entertain and educate me (where do you think i learned my jumper) and i’ll leave the rest of the judging for someone far greater than myself.

      • ike6116

        Pretty sure you live in my neck of the woods.

        You hop in 95 / 128 hitting 100 is real easy to do and be practically moving with the flow of traffic.

    • http://hellforleathermagazine.com Wes Siler

      Hooray for an intelligent discussion.

    • http://www.facebook.com/beastincarnate Ben Incarnate

      “We won’t get legislated out of existence because we haven’t been yet” isn’t a compelling argument. There have there been laws passed based on the behavior of motorcyclists. That validates the concern. I’m pretty sure HFL has supported that concern in past articles, as well. Maybe I’m hallucinating.

      I’d be interested to see the expansion of motorcycle laws over time. When and why they all came to be. It seems like there’s been an awful lot of proposed regulation lately. It could be a matter that I’m paying attention to it more than before.

    • carbon

      I’m not going to try to counter all your arguments, MotoRandom. I agree that motorcycles are not much of a threat to cars. Perhaps a 200mph one is. But here are some facts:

      Novato girl, 9, hit by motorcycle dies; dad in critical condition

      Motorcyclist kills pedestrian on 710 Freeway

      Drunk Motorcyclist Kills Bicyclist on Separated Bike Path

      Woman killed by drag racing motorcyclist is 4th death during biker festival, police say (dead woman dragged 162 ft. Sounds fun.)

      Motorcyclist kills San Leon man checking his mail

      Cops: Motorcyclist kills senior, and he’s not likely to survive

      Motorcyclist Kills Cyclist & Himself In High-Speed Crash

      Maybe you care more about dogs? Biker kills dog and injures boy


      I appreciate risk taking, even risk taking that risks the lives of others. I love motorcycles. I often don’t wear a helmet, which is stupid, but it makes motorcycling more fun…it IS better in the wind, as the movie title goes.

      But please retain compassion for the lives around you. Maybe Mama didn’t love you, but I try to. In the most manly, platonic way possible.

      P.S. I liked the article!

      • MotoRandom

        Carbon- First off, thank you. I appreciate that you made effort to find some factual information instead spouting safety hyberbole and claiming it the final word. I looked through your links and it seems like most of these cases are the same kind of thing I found. Yes, people get killed by motorcycles. Reading this stuff is unpleasant. But once again, as in most of the stuff I found, there is a lack of what we could call a smoking gun relating to the videos that have been posted by NYC Fastest.
        There are examples of drunken Harley riders hitting people. For the record, anyone who becomes intoxicated and operates a motor vehicle needs to have their ass kicked thoroughly by the legal system. Half of all motorcycle deaths involve alchohol. There is no excuse for it. But also not really part of the discussion here. Did you find an example or preferably several where a sober motorcyclist riding at seriously high speed hit a motor vehicle and killed the occupents? I don’t really see that in the examples you provided. But again, with all due respect, thank you for making effort. That rarely seems to happen when these poop flinging contests break out.

        • carbon

          MotoRandom, thanks for the courteous reply!

          I did just find one, just one example of “motorcyclist kills motorist.” Very rare indeed. Here and here (snopes).

          And yeah, Sean, some of those examples are just crazy pedestrains doing stupid things. Just a matter of odds, if you are driving down a highway often enough, rolling snake-eyes is probably going to happen one day. You don’t even have to be speeding or FTW’ing.

          Take care.

      • Sean Smith

        I’d argue that the 710 ped death has more to do with a crazy guy running across the freeway at 4am than a speeding motorcyclist. Just sayin…

    • Skank NYCF

      Finally someone with sense. Thank you.

    • http://www.youtube.com/user/Adeysworld adeysworld

      Cheers to you buddy.

  • Ax

    “Fuck the World”. Maybe that’s the arrogant, selfish, inconsiderate, irresponsible, and immature attitude that some people have a problem with. Yeah, yeah, I know, you don’t care what anyone else thinks. But that’s the exact attitude that makes a person an asshole.

  • Charlie

    So I guess this is not about reporting after all. No one gives a shit about which bike is actually faster based on this important news item. It’s about glorifying 187mph on the street. Fuck the world and the poor bastard driving to work at 4am on Sat. He’s not likely to be killed, but he’s just part of the lifestyle. Speed is great. We are all junkies. But why not the track? I had a friend die under an SUV because he was flying around a blind curve. Great rider. Died without a will, etc. Not glamorous at all

  • ktaisa

    What bout b mores 12 o clock boys vs NYC fastest in a review of what’s more badass

    No joke I would love to read 12 o clock boyz bike reviews

    • http://www.twitter.com/wessilerfanclub sean (the roommate)

      ummm, what?

      • Myles


        I threw down a hundo ages ago before funding was complete, can’t wait for this shit to drop.

        12oclock is way more badass, Bodymore Murderland makes New York look like Orange County.

      • ktaisa

        its a gang that appeared after marlow standfield went back to prison

        • zipp4

          Wire reference… nice.

          • http://www.twitter.com/wessilerfanclub sean (the roommate)

            unnecessarily telling everyone its a wire reference….not nice.

  • Liquidogged

    Here’s some reality:

    I’m not going to bother with the irresponsibility/illegality argument. It’s all been stated here and elsewhere. I did have a nice giggle at the legal disclaimer, clapped on to the “article” like duct tape.

    This is a shitty “article”. It’s really just a couple of paragraphs and a moderately crappy video done under poor conditions for actually determining which is the faster bike.

    There are moto news outfits that do good comparos. Try motorcycle.com. When they do a comparison, they go in-depth on each bike and take it to the track as well as the street. They evaluate real-world riding as well as high-speed performance and their final evaluation takes both into account. They bring in a mix of testers, use a mix of tracks, and appear to give all marques a fair chance, even *gasp* Harley-Davidson.

    Someone want to explain to me why this “article” is worth me paying for, when Motorcycle.com is free and my actual interest is in seeing a comparison of these two bikes?

    Coverage of NYCF is hurting this website.

    Wes: there is a middle ground between this kind of content and ignoring this phenomenon entirely. It’s called journalism. It involves a lot of research, asking tough questions, and being careful not to take sides. If you’re going to base your whole approach to this business on the idea that the print mags have failed, then you can’t just be different from them. You need to be better.

    The quality of content certainly needs to be better than this if you want to retain all of your subscribers. I’m sure you can’t keep them all, but it’s a more noble goal than doing whatever the hell you want and seeing who isn’t pissed off and gone when the dust settles.

    • http://hellforleathermagazine.com Wes Siler

      Sure, but this is one small piece of content in a larger editorial environment. Some stuff is small, like this, some stuff is big, like what we have planned for next week. Not everything is going to be a major feature.

    • Dumptruckfoxtrot


  • Peter88

    This is a tough one, being a sportbike riding grandfather makes it so. What was that line, the first rule of fight club is you don’t talk about fight club? We all speed but rarely is it publicized in a major motorcycle website. In terms of laws and rights I think the authorities know what we do and if we’re not ass holes they give us a pass. Publicity brings in the haters and then the authorities must react to “public outrage”. Throw a few HFL readers on the latest sportbikes and send them to the Texas Mile and find out which is fastest.

  • http://www.twitter.com/wessilerfanclub sean (the roommate)


    “Someone want to explain to me why this “article” is worth me paying for, when Motorcycle.com is free and my actual interest is in seeing a comparison of these two bikes?”

    sure, i’ll give it a shot. i decided to do this thing “called journalism. It involves a lot of research, asking tough questions, and being careful not to take sides” and went to motorcycle.com. on the front page was the following review..


    now, to answer your question. this review gives you the same information as each OEM website or countless other sources for spec sheets. blah blah blah. as you can see, i have only linked the “conclusion” page as it is the main source of contention.

    does the comparison tell you which bike to buy? yes.
    does the comparison tell you which bike is better? no

    motorcycle.com is full of reviews that repeat stats, tell you how they are all great bikes, and then cop out with a “the Kawasaki, with a still-strong performance package, is vaulted to the top for street duty by virtue of its remarkable MSRP of $9999 that offers a savings anywhere from a little less than $700 to as much as $1600 in this crowd”

    so, based on this credible publication’s comparion….which is the best motorcycle?

    what is worth paying for is someone who will write their honest opinion about each bike, regardless of who they piss off. someone to ride each bike with enough real world experience (i dont care how many tracks you take it to) to tell me how it handles in a situation i might want to be riding that bike in. someone who can tell me that, if i were to buy it, i would want to change the brakes or suspension or something to make it better.

    if you’re content with motorcycle.com, then you are right. there really is no reason to keep yourself from buying a cup of coffee once month just to give you access to all of this nonsense.

    • http://hellforleathermagazine.com Wes Siler

      Thanks Sean.

      yeah, I have a hard time thinking of an alleged adult dressing up in DayGlo leathers and half-assedly repeating manufacturer’s specs, then showing you some knee down photos of himself, as “content.”

      Case in point:




      Is this particular article the best thing we’ve ever produced? No. But it’s one of a hundred or so articles we’ll do this month, none of which will feature me wearing DayGlo leathers and reading you a press release.

    • http://www.facebook.com/beastincarnate Ben Incarnate

      The motorcycle.com call out was ripe for attack.

      I glanced through the article and they seemed to think the Suzuki was the best bike. Or was it the Kawi? That should be clearly laid out in the conclusion. As such, who knows how much you’re giving up in the name of value. For example, saying something like, “The Suzuki is the best bike here. It gives up a bit of peak performance to the Kawasaki, but makes up for it with the best brakes, handling, and ergonomics of the group. However, The Kawasaki, with a still-strong…”

      Another recent favorite from that site is the Literbike Streetfighter shootout. What a mess that one is.


      • Liquidogged

        Actually, the fact that they pick one they like while still finding reasons to like the other ones – that appeals to me. They often talk about how close the bikes are. That’s ok. They give the reader a lot of information, and then they let the reader form their own opinion on which to go for, even if it isn’t what they would pick. Look, there are plenty of things not to like about motorcycle.com, and I know this particular piece is not trying to compete with their full-blown comparos, but their comparos are chock full of information I actually give a shit about and blissfully free of machismo and other bullshit. And as motorcycling is not a fashion show, I don’t give a damn what color their leathers are.

        I have a hard time thinking of a crappy video of an alleged adult piloting high powered bikes at 190mph on public roads, and the subsequent chest-beating and other bullshit, as “content.” I take your point, Wes, that this is but one small thing in a sea of content, and that’s cool. You have a lot of good content on the site. Crap like this taints the rest of it.

        The big beef with motorcycle.com and the print mags seems to be their willingness to toe the corporate line in order to bring in sponsors/advertisers and therefore money. HFL seems to be willing to toe the thug line to bring in more subscribers and therefore money. I’m having a hard time seeing much of a difference when looking at articles like this.

        • http://www.facebook.com/beastincarnate Ben Incarnate

          Liquidogged – I don’t have an issue with two bikes being closely matched. I expect they should be if the manufacturers are doing their jobs. However, when the reviewers heap so much praise that some bikes have no weaknesses at all, or you have to see who got fewer pluses, that’s gobbling a bit too much corporate clam chowder for me. I read the Motorcycle.com articles, but they could do a huge amount to improve the value of the comparisons.

          Worse, their individual bike reviews are far from critical. They’re on par with Motorcyclist magazine, which is to say largely useless unless you’re looking for a reason to buy whatever bike is being reviewed. So, the complaint is that the information provided serves the manufacturers more than it does the customers/riders.

          I appreciate that they’re out there. It gives me something to look at. But it’s rarely valuable.

      • http://www.youtube.com/user/Adeysworld adeysworld

        Might I add that during that Supersport review which they shot on the Snake section of Mulholland. They crashed two of the bikes in the same corner and didn’t even make a honest attempt to clean it up. How they crashed riding at a snails pace is beyond me. But I wouldn’t listen to a word they had to say concerning anything with two-wheels.

  • Don

    No deer on Long Island? That is the main reason you don’t see this around where I live. That and the Nebraska State Patrol, who would put more pain on you than the crash would at 200 mph.

  • Skank NYCF

    Who here really has to worry about restrictions and regulations? None of you!! If you’re not riding like me, if you’re not breaking the speed limit or using a loud exhaust you shouldn’t be crying like little bitches. Don’t worry about legislation cause it won’t contain to you law biding responsible motocyclist citizens. Just do what you do(nothing)and enjoy it.

    Seem like most of you just need something to bitch about for the sake of bitching cause thats what bitches do. Keep crying your eyes out about what we do and how we’re going to kill some poor family at 3,4 or 5AM. And we’ll continue to speed all up and down, all fancy crazy on public roads with no care for the poor public.

    Am I a huge asshole? I don’t know, maybe but, I do have a good pack of law breaking and immoral friends that like me. And Grant and Wes think I’m okay. Lmao.

    • lupin

      haha…. you must get a lot of disapproval from bitches around you. stop crying for attention and get some help. I am sure Grant and Wes will agree too.

    • Dumptruckfoxtrot

      You are so cool Skank. Of course you’ll probably be a grease spot on the highway soon enough and, unfortunately, cool dead guys don’t get to hug their kids. It doesn’t seem like you really give five fucks about them, or your wife. Dad of the year Skank.

      Deep down, you know you’re a fucking idiot right? Maybe that’s what has you all hung up and pissy. Is all this bravado because the world is a confusing place and makes your head hurt?

      ” cause it won’t contain to you law biding responsible motocyclist citizens”

      Can you explain how it won’t “contain” to me, a “law biding motocyclist citizen” Skank? If HFL was a TV station, you’d be Jersey Shore. Pauly D has friends too, plenty of people like a good pair of clown shoes.

      What I don’t understand is that illiterate, criminal, morons on Harleys are bad, but when you put them on a liter bike they become acceptable. Can you explain that Wes? If it’s because they go fast, well I’m not sure I get why that should keep them from the derision you shower on any other idiot on two wheels.

  • Denzel

    NY Fastest features obviously drives buzz on HFL. As does TJ Nesbitt. So I cynically expect more. But it leads to interest fatigue. …and yes DTFT, this in particular does make me feel like I’m watching Jersey Shore… and I don’t watch Jersey Shore because watching Jersey Shore is a big fucking waste of our short time on this planet. Point being I hope HFL rejects ratings whore topics like this in the future.

    • Devin

      I see what you’re getting at, but I disagree. I am genuinely interested in what bike is faster. If you ignore the 200 whiney comments, that’s all this article touches.

      • Denzel

        I’m with you on the interest in the bikes Devin. WES, you have one foot in the car world, I’m sure there would be interest in some well written “Truth About Motorcycles” reviews, a la TTAC, added to the HFL mix.


        • http://hellforleathermagazine.com Wes Siler

          We don’t tell you the truth already?

          • Denzel

            You guys provide a big mosaic of bike related content… Probably the most eclectic available. But what you do not do, very often at least, are more indepth bike reviews. I don’t mean formulaic, but like the detailed pieces you did about Shamu. You told “the truth about” that bike. It was great. This Kawi BMW article is not about the bikes really. Nor was the Skiny article about that bike. I just think people like motorcycle mags to read about bikes. Because HFL seeks to change the magazine paradigm, doesn’t mean you have to throw out the baby with the bath water, and not have reviews. I understand magazines need to be plugged into the ‘motorcycle industrial complex’ in order to get access to the bikes, and write softball reviews, but HFL does get access to enough bikes to ramp up the accurate review aspect of your content.

            • http://hellforleathermagazine.com Wes Siler

              There’s three problems with that. 1. The return on investment for us on reviews is limited. By the time we get access, months after the old guys, not that many people want to read a review of that bike. 2. Reviews are boring stories. If there’s a story in a review, as in Shamu being terrible when all the other “journalists” said it was tits, was a relevant, interesting story. 3. There’s three of us. If we’re out of the office four days a week shooting and riding, then you don’t get content. HFL needs to focus on the stories you guys wan to read, we can tell which ones those are by looking at the numbers and by doing the kind of stories we get excited about doing. That doesn’t mean we won’t or don’t ride bikes and write about them. In the last couple of weeks we’ve done the FJR, Griso and Ninja 1000.

              • Denzel

                I’m just saying that when I’m shopping for a bike, I’ll search for reviews, and I would love it if HFL came up, b/c I trust there’s no BS. Here’s hoping your resources grow with time.

                • http://hellforleathermagazine.com Wes Siler

                  It’s not about resources. We want to make fun stories, not boring reviews.

              • Skank NYCF

                Sooooooo, I excite you? Eek.

  • Skank NYCF

    Im the coolest.

    Also,6th gear is still restricted,
    They’re working on the program right to remove it.
    Don’t worry I’ll make a video.

    • T Diver

      I don’t get it. People got pretty pissed about this post. I think we all know motorcycles can be dangerous. My crew had the unfortunate duty of burying another member on Monday. He was in a coma for a week. Eventually they took his organs and unplugged him. A van turned in front of him in Bakersfield. It sucks. Right now I hate bikes. I can’t even watch races. I’m sure it will pass. Be safe people and try not to stress out too much from the moral discussions on a non-porn internet site.

  • Skank NYCF

    Sorry to hear about your boy and your loss. Was he speeding down a highway or was he just out crusing and some mindless asshole just decided to make a turn in front of him?

    • T Diver

      Just a moron turning. Same story. We all take risks I guess. Life is odd.

  • Will

    It’s just coverage. If HFL was based in Mexico and decided to do a story interviewing cartel cronies with AKs and motorcycles terrorizing villages, it wouldn’t be glorification.

    As has been discussed, all America has for coverage is press releases, cruisers, sportbikes which are different from eachother somehow in ways that aren’t discussed, and dirtbikes. I like to be enriched with all forms of motorcycle culture underground and otherwise. I sure as fuck don’t want to do what NY’s Fastest do, because I have rational faculties that inform me of my own self worth and ability. Surprise!

    POSTSCRIPT how is 5’10″ 220lb not at least a little fat?

    • Dumptruckfoxtrot

      What if they used a video from the cartel espousing the virtues of differing rifles. Or maybe they’d describe them as the bandits that all of us wish we could be, bandits who are just like our families.

      The articles on NY’s Fastest are not just coverage, they are glorification. Re-read the New York’s Fastest feature.

    • Skank NYCF

      Im speaking for myself. Im actually 225lbs. I jumped on a scale yesterday. As for 1Arm, he’s stocky guy but far from a fat mess. I think between the bikes and rider its was a close comparison. The ZX has a reflash ECU but theres still a 6th gear code theyre working on removing.

      • Skank NYCF