5 Forms of Needless Moto-Posturing

Lists -

By

Moto Posturing

Let’s be honest for a minute: as motorcyclists, our culture is steeped in needless posturing. The sheer complexity of our fellow enthusiasts conceit ranges far and wide. An assemblage of brand loyalties, silly prejudices, firmly entrenched opinions, questionable beliefs, and passionate sentiments await the uninitiated as a motley graph of affectations from which to judge exactly what sort of motorcyclist one might be. How best to peacock at the local coffee shop meet? Where does one find an honest leather worker to fashion your pirate costume? When does typing in all caps become acceptable in your multipage forum diatribe? How much longer do I have to stand here listening to your track day stories? We all do it to some degree and we all know at least one person who insists on the value of these things. Here are some of the sillier ones.

Moto Posturing

Carbon Fiber Bits

Now don’t get me wrong, fiber-reinforced polymers are pretty cool. The applicative properties of added strength and lightness are endless and can be highly useful. Though if it’s not a wheel or a frame, it just seems like tinsel on motorcycles. I could spend a few grand in the carbon parts catalogue and save some weight, or I could save an equal amount of weight by simply eating a smaller breakfast every morning. Carbon fiber as protection means protecting an expensive piece with a slightly less expensive piece, so that doesn’t work out. That leaves us with the fact that it looks hella cool, and it does. It’s basically jewelry that says to the onlooker that we take this motorcycling thing very seriously. Do we like to shine up all those beautiful bits of graphite weave right before the next meet? Yes we do.

 

Moto PosturingChickenstrips

A little alarm goes off in my head whenever I hear a motorcyclist get derogatory about another’s tire wear. I’m specifically referring to chickenstrips, a name referencing the strips of unscathed rubber at the edge of a tire which suggest a rider has not reached maximum lean on his or her motorcycle. This kind of posturing is a silly notion, and only reinforces the idea that the speaker is the sort of person who often rides at a breakneck pace at full lean on public roads. Is it a good idea for a commuter, newbie, or frequent in-town rider to be using all of their available traction around traffic and other road hazards? Of course not. Tire wear tells me little about the skill of a rider, but the way others discuss it tells me everything about their riding disposition.

Moto PosturingTechnological Purism

Often our strongest passions as motorcyclists are brokered around the vestigial technologies of yesteryear. These purists posture and clamor for a simpler time, without fuel-injection, or antilock brakes, or liquid cooling, or traction control. Mechanical carburetion is looked to as the superlative process with which to fuel our engines. Antilock brakes and traction control are seen as a redundant complexity that adds more to the list of parts that might fail. And liquid cooling is just wrong somehow. This stance creates a bizarre anachronistic style of thought, which rejects the benefits of select technologies while unknowingly embracing others like modern tire construction, improvements in metal alloy composition for frames and wheels, advancements in brake and suspension technology, and computer-aided design. Let’s agree to view the improvements coming out of the bike industry as they are: refinements that keep us safer and increase our enjoyment of the sport.

Moto Posturing

Oil and Tires and Lubricants, Oh My!

This one had to be brought up for humor value if nothing else. If you’re keen on getting motorcyclists worked up with insensate rage on the internet, there are few avenues as easy as asking what sort of tires or oils you should be running on your bike. Pick a forum and have at it. Opinions will fly in a poorly worded confetti storm of anecdotes, homemade experiments backing dubious claims, egregious personal attacks, and the ancestral usage of various brands through scores of bikes and generations of families. This is electronic posturing in its purest form, a grand, crowd-sourced opus to all that is taken way too seriously in this little niche culture of ours. Having said all that, at least we can all agree Shinko tires are rubbish, right?

Moto PosturingBigger Is Always Better With A Sportbike

How much longer should this farcical attitude last? Sport literbikes will forever remain the pinnacles of performance in the minds of those who seek horsepower or those whose dealerships convinced them of it. More sportbike riders than not lack the necessary skill to use the advantages provided by a liter class bike. Fewer realize that the ergonomics and rider triangle between 600cc and 1000cc variants of the same bike are virtually identical. This sours the argument that “if you’re a big guy, then you need a big bike”. Even the uninitiated without access to a bike often pick up on the belief that if you get anything below 500cc you’ll “outgrow” it in a couple of months. As prevalent as this method of thinking is, let’s switch it up. How about being honest about our skill level, allow ourselves and others to ride at their own pace, and be a little more inclusive in this crazy cacoethes we enjoy together?

What sort of silly posturing do you see in the community? While I’m at it, what oil or tires do you think are clearly the best?

  • Aaron Mezger

    God forbid anyone ever goes less than ATGATT

    • Chris McKendry

      Quick run to the bank yesterday and I only wore a tshirt. I could practically feel all the flames from the forums.

      • Guy Simmonds

        I’m surprised they let you in the bank without trousers on…

        • Chris McKendry

          …standing in line got a little weird, I’ll admit.

      • timdnml

        Where did you put your keys?

      • Tupack Shackur

        I’ve ridden in shorts and tshirt in the summer for the past two years. Got in one minor scrape and lost a bunch of skin, yet it hasn’t stopped me. I’m going to be smarter about it this summer, though. I don’t want it to take a bad wreck to lose my naivete about how dangerous I’ve been. But it’s just so free to ride in no gear…

    • CaptainPlatypus

      I’m pretty anal-retentive about being ATGATT myself and enforcing the same on my passengers, but if you’re not on my bike, it’s not any of my fuckin’ business. Ride the way you want to ride, and you probably don’t want my recommendations unless you ask for them.

    • SoundsRightToMe

      “God forbid anyone ever goes less than ATGATT”

      Whatever, man. Really.
      The world is not going to come to an end because someone chooses to not wear “all the gear, all the time” when riding.
      Deal with it.

  • http://krtong.com/ Kr Tong

    If your exhaust tip isnt powdered white from runnin leaded race fuel in a stock motor youre not posturing enough.

  • Dave

    “Why are you still riding in Beginner group? You’re fast enough to hang with intermediate.”
    I’ll bump up when I’m damn good and ready, thanks.

  • Justin McClintock

    I’m gonna disagree with the technological purism aspect. At least as far as it relates to carburetors. I have a 1978 DT175 sitting at home. If the carb dies in some spectacular form where it can’t be rebuilt (which is really easy might I add), I can find some other carb that will work on it and I can keep the bike running. Someday, when my SV1000 is maybe half that age, it’ll wind up with a bad fuel pump or a screwed up injector. I’ll need to replace something. If they aren’t still making those parts (rest assured, it’s a 2003….in another 7 years they won’t be building parts for it), I can try and find a NOS one somewhere. Failing that, I can try and find a used one. Failing that, if it’s the fuel pump, I can try to fabricate something that might work. But it’s mounted INSIDE the gas tank. Better not screw up your wiring. Or I can buy a new bike and see what that one is worth in scrap aluminum. If it’s the fuel injector, I can try to find something else that might work and have the head machined accordingly. Or I can buy a new engine. Or a new bike.

    Sometimes new technology is great. But what many don’t realize is that quite a bit of that new technology will one day make many of the bikes that it’s being applied to disposable.

    • Braden

      I can’t disagree with that, you’ve got some valid points. I still think I’ve got a case for how the attitude regarding traditional vs future tech (on both sides really) could be improved.

      • Justin McClintock

        As I mentioned below, I do agree that new stuff has its place as well. I’m glad my SV1000 is fuel injected. But at the same time…I have a DRZ400SM and I’m constantly hearing people complain about how it isn’t FI. Really? It doesn’t need it. It’s a single. It’s not a race bike. And it’s EXTREMELY easy to upgrade. It doesn’t need FI. What it NEEDS is a 6 speed transmission and a tachometer….like my 1978 DT175 have!

        • Bill T

          A digital tachometer I hope, as my CB450sc tach reads 4500rpm +/- 2000. lol I also want to upgrade to EFI, ABS and liquid cool as bike will be much more fuel efficient and less temperamental. I won’t need to change jet needles every time I am up in the rockies.

          PS: you might want to order a carb rebuilt kit and vacuum boots for your vintage whatever or it will be collecting dust in the garage when the rubbers are done.

          • Justin McClintock

            One can fashion most of the parts for a carb rebuild kit themselves if they’re handy enough….with the possible exception of the diaphram (on a CV carb). And I would prefer an analog tach to be perfectly honest. They’re easier to read when they’re working right. May new bikes still come with them. I’m gonna guess that you have some kind of spark problem that’s causing your tach to read all wonky. If you get not spark off the line its reading from, or an intermitten spark, you’ll get no reading or some kind of very wonky reading just like you’re getting.

            • dinoSnake

              Almost all “analog” tachs are electronic, simply with a dial readout. Much more reliable than a simple electric tach.

              • Justin McClintock

                I know that. He didn’t say electronic. He said digital. Big difference. I have zero use for a digital tach. They’re too freakin’ hard to read.

                • SoundsRightToMe

                  That completely depends on the tach.

                  It isn’t easy or hard to read just because it’s digital or analog.
                  The tachs on Busas over the years are “analog” but they are gawdawful hard to read simply because all the “ticks” are the same length, the numbers all the same size. Too much resolution, likewise with a digital tach that tries to show you the RPM to 4 digits it’s a PITA. But 2 digits (“05k, “10k”) is just fine, as long as they are big enough to read with a glance and the contrast is good. It all depends on the display-format and personal preference.

                  I like the LED bar tachs, some people hate them…completely understandable.

              • Bill T

                My 82 and 84 Nighthawk tacks are driven by cable attached to engine crank case…

                • Justin McClintock

                  I think Dinosnake is simply refering to modern tachs. I can’t think of any modern ones that are truly analog. They’re all driven electrically off the ignition system. But yes, there most definitely were some old, truly analog tachs.

                  That being said, you can ignore what I said earlier about the spark if yours are honestly analog. Sounds like they’re just plain ole worn out then. Maybe a new drive gear? I dunno. Shouldn’t be bouncing around +/- almost 50%, that’s for sure.

                • SoundsRightToMe

                  “truly analog”?

                  Now you’re confusing mechanical vs electrical for “analog vs digital”.

            • Piglet2010

              And a dial Speed-O-Meter is much better than a digital display.

            • Jason

              You may want to purchase a carb rebuild kit while you can. I have a ’76 and a ’79 Kawasaki KZ400. The jets and needles are still available but but most of the o-rings and the diaphragms haven’t been available for years. I know by experience that trying to fit a different carb is a royal pain.

              • Justin McClintock

                The O-rings don’t bother me much as those are pretty easy to replace with whatever parts. But yeah…the diaphragms are a different story. Fortunately the DT was very popular so parts are still quite plentiful. And the RT180 parts will bolt right up. That may be a different carb (not sure), but I could swap the carb on that one very easily if I had to.

                • Jason

                  Singles are a lot easier to swap carbs than twins, triples, etc. When you have multiple cylinders you not only have to tune the new carb for an application it wasn’t intended for but you also have to fabricate the mounting / syncing mechanisms. I’m in the process of fabricating a manifold to convert my ’79 KZ400 from the stock CV carbs to a single mechanical carb.

                • Justin McClintock

                  No doubt. That’s why I like my bikes nice and simple. I’ve got 3….two are singles and one’s an twin (and it’s EFI). There’s also something to be said for Harley’s approach to a single carb/throttle body for their bikes. Makes maintenance MUCH easier.

              • Piglet2010

                Real Motorcycles™ use acetylene-carbide lights, and not these new-fangled electric lights.

          • dinoSnake

            +1

            Nothing better than walking up to my bike, even after winter storage, hitting the starter…and just having it run, no questions asked.

            I love EFI.

            • Justin McClintock

              I rode my DRZ400SM to work a couple weeks ago. Fired right up, no questions asked. It was 5 degrees (F) out. You don’t need FI just to make a bike work in cold weather. I ride all 3 of my bikes year round. 2 of them are carbed.

              This. This is exactly the kind of stuff I’m talking about. People saying they need technology because it’s so great when they never bothered to learn the old stuff right to begin with. Not understanding a carburetor or how to work on one is no excuse for demanding FI, yet that seems to be the prevalent mood, especially when talking about something like a DRZ or a TU250 or anything along those lines. Singles “need” FI like I “need” a 20,000 sq. ft house.

              • Piglet2010

                Uh, the Suzuki TU250X has always had fuel injection.

                With Euro Tier 4 and CARB emission standards, there is no way to meet them and not lose power and/or rideablity with a carburetor compared to fuel injection.

                • Justin McClintock

                  But that just goes to my point elsewhere about the government mandating them right out of existence. Let’s be honest….if you added up every single TU250X ever built and switched them to a carbs….would it have any kind of environmental impact in a land of Ford Excursions? No. No it wouldn’t.

                • Jason

                  You are confusing emissions with fuel economy. A carburated Ninja 250 puts out more emissions than a 6.0L V8 Suburban even though it burns a fraction of the fuel per mile. Cars have emission systems that are 20 years ahead even EFI motorcycles and bikes are allowed to emit many times more CO and NOx per mile than a car.

                • Justin McClintock

                  No I’m not. You are confusing total emissions with PPM emissions (which is itself, a joke). Why do you think the auto industry is happy to crank out vehicles the size that they do? Because until CAFE regulations became an issue, emissions weren’t one…because everything is PPM based. By those standards, a new Chevy Tahoe is cleaner than a 6 year old Honda Civic. That’s not really the case, but that’s the way the emissions regulations are set up.

                • Jason

                  On-Road vehicle emissions are measured in grams / mile (for cars) and grams / kilometer (for motorcycles). They are not PPM (Parts Per Million)

                  CARB executive orders (emission certifications) are public record and can be found here: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/cert.php

                • Justin McClintock

                  That might be the single most difficult to navigate webpage I’ve ever seen. But anyway, it does appear it’s based on grams/mile which is ironic given that every state with emissions testing of currently used vehicles tests to PPM.

                • Jason

                  Mobile emissions testing for state certification is very different that the testing done by manufacturers for certifications. The equipment used for annual inspections can only pick up gross polluters. The emissions labs for certification cost millions of dollars and collect everything from the exhaust pipe while the vehicle runs through a test cycle on a dyno. It is the same way that they measure fuel economy for CAFE.

                  I was a product manager for a line of utility vehicles about 5 years ago. We had to get our new generation of vehicles CARB certified and the lab testing for certification cost $250,000 per vehicle.

                • Piglet2010

                  “By those standards, a new Chevy Tahoe is cleaner than a 6 year old Honda Civic.”

                  Probably not, since a 6-year old Honda Civic meets ULEV standards. But in general, your point is likely correct.

                • Piglet2010

                  Liquid cooling matters too – I do not have the cite at hand, but H-D’s CARB approval application showed dramatically lower emissions with the new liquid-cooled heads on the TC-103.

                • Jason

                  The data is on the CARB website I linked above.
                  Water-cooled: HC = 0.08 / HC+NOx = 0.11 / CO = 0.80 (Grams / Kilometer)
                  Air-cooled: HC = 0.25 / HC=NOx = 0.35 / CO = 4.60 (Grams / Kilometer)

                  That is a HUGE reduction in emissions.

              • Campisi

                “People saying they need technology because it’s so great when they never bothered to learn the old stuff right to begin with.”

                I fail to see the problem. Being less of a hassle is a GOOD thing.

                • Justin McClintock

                  That’s the kind of logic that not only will lead to the demise of a lot of great technology including the carburetor, but the manual transmission as well. Pardon me if I’m lacking enthusiasm for that kind of “progress”.

              • dinoSnake

                Oh, please. I worked on my last bike’s carbs, an ’84 ZX900 Ninja. The previous owner may have done a Stage 1 but he did a CRAP job of it, opening the throttle gave you the worst midrange stumble you’d ever encounter and then WHAM!, once it cleared its throat it would come up and bite you in the butt. Upon taking apart the carbs all the clips weren’t even set close to matching in the main jet needles! The bike may have been a bit slower after proper tuning (I never ran a 1/4 before or after to check) but rideability went way, way up through the roof, and that was way more important to me.

                I doesn’t matter if we know about carbs or not – it’s that I choose NOT to deal with them. I added an EFI tuner to my bike and I can adjust idle, main and accelerator pump functions with just the twist of a small potentiometer, not even getting my hands dirty. It still took me forever to get *just the right* tuning, because I’m OCD that way, but it was remove 3 bolts from the seat and pop a rubber cover rather than pull out an air cleaner and intake manifold just to get to the carb(s). And now I don’t even need to use the choke (idle enrichment) knob – EVER – because the tuning is SPOT ON.

                When I traveled from the East Coast to Denver I didn’t have to worry about running lean – nope, not once did the bike care. Ran as great as when I left the coast.

                I only had a problem with starting my carb bikes after winter storage just 1 year, otherwise yeah I never had a problem after long-term storage either. But overall starting is MUCH more reliable with EFI than I ever experienced with my carb bikes, period. And I don’t have to worry about jets getting plugged up – EFI just doesn’t care. Oh yeah, almost forgot…EFI doesn’t piss fuel all over the ground if you drop your bike!

                You’re living in the past. I, also, wasn’t too keen on EFI in bikes until I tried it – never go back, that’s me. As Campisi says, less of a hassle is a GOOD thing.

                • Justin McClintock

                  I have an EFI bike. I also have 2 carbed bikes. EFI has its place. So do carbs. THAT is my point.

                  And believe me, it’s just as possible for somebody to royally screw up a bike’s fueling with a Power Commander and just enough knowledge to not know what they’re doing as it is with carbs.

                • Piglet2010

                  How did you get the bike started after winter storage?

              • ThinkingInImages

                You’re hitting two different points, Justin. Some carbed motorcycles are fussy to start when the engine is cold, more so when it’s cold out. Some are a damned nuisance when the engine is hot and it’s cold out. Add any combination of variables of engine temperature, weather, even altitude, and some carbed motorcycles can be fussy things. There’s nothing “retro” or “cool” about a fussy motorcycle.

                Oddly, I see nobody is complaining about electric starters. Nothing is more aggravating than trying to kick start a big, cold blooded, carbed single. That’s alchemy at best. Singles, of all engines, need FI. There’s a one in four chance of firing up.

                • Justin McClintock

                  1/4? My DT has a 1/2…and a kick starter. :-P

                  As for my DRZ, also carbed…again, it never has these issues. And while I like its starter motor, I do wish it had a kicker as well (and I’ll probably add one at some point since with that bike I can). Nothing worse than wanting to fire it up, only to find a dead battery. It’s carbed…a dead battery isn’t a problem. But no kicker is, unless I can find a nice hill.

              • Piglet2010

                Move north, leave your DR-Z400SM parked for 3 months, and see if it fires right up.

                • Justin McClintock

                  My brother’s DR350SE does. Step one: if it has a vacuum operated petcock, replace it with a manual one or get real comfortable with the “prime” setting. My DRZ and DT both have manual operated petcocks. Turn them on a minute or so before starting. Start right up. Brother does the same thing with his DR350SE. It starts right up after winter in Cleveland.

                • Piglet2010

                  Both my Tee-Dub and Ninjette have manual petcocks, and neither will start, even with lots of cranking (I have an automotive battery charger hooked up on the 2-amp setting). :(

                • Justin McClintock

                  If you’ve let them sit a minute or so with the petcock on prior to cranking and they still won’t start easily on choke, something’s wrong. Either they’re clogged up or they’re jetted wrong.

                • Piglet2010

                  I am going to siphon most of the old gas out, add some Sea Foam to what is left, and see if that works.

                • Justin McClintock

                  I’d fill it up with fresh gas once you siphon all the old stuff out, then Sea Foam all that. It won’t hurt it and if the Sea Foam helps, more won’t hurt so long as you don’t over concentrate it. It’ll also help keep any old gas from having much of a bad effect by diluting it with the fresh stuff. Not saying that’ll definitely work, but it’s certainly not a bad idea. Good luck with it.

                • Piglet2010

                  Worked, but took lots of cranking for the initial firing, and then starter assisted running for about 15 seconds on each bike before they would run on their own. In contrast, the fuel-injected Hondas and Triumph fired up with less than a second of cranking each, right to a stable idle.

                • Justin McClintock

                  Well, the only thing I can think then is that your bikes must have a pretty narrow temperature range they’re happy in without changing the jetting. So I’d try richening it up a bit when it’s cold, at least the idle setting. That’s easy enough to change, just remember where you had it initially so you can change it back later. Do you have to use the choke at all during the summer months?

                • Piglet2010

                  No issues with the Tee-Dub as long as it is run weekly, but even with Sta-Bil in the gas, it does not want to start if it sits much longer – why I decided to use the Sea Foam.

                  The Ninjette does not want to run even on half choke during the summer until warmed up completely. I probably need to get it re-jetted to run right.

                • CaptainQueeg

                  …um, if it won’t start, then something’s wrong :)

                  The question is do you then blame it on the bike or the owner?

                • SoundsRightToMe

                  …”lots of cranking” is bad for the starter.
                  At some point you should resort to a bump-start (you especially might want to invest in one of those rear-wheel starters) or failing that just give up on it for a while and at least let the starter cool off.

                  It does help to know why the bike isn’t starting and to be able to fix it before you try again.

            • Piglet2010

              I love letting my pre-gen Ninjette warm up at 6000 rpm on full choke, because it dies on even half-choke for the first several minutes after starting. Not.

              • Justin McClintock

                I see comments like that all the time. That means your carbs aren’t set right or they’re dirty/clogged, not that carbs are a bad thing. My DRZ doesn’t have that problem. My DT doesn’t have that problem. They both run great in everything from 10 degrees to 100 degrees. And I’m quite pleased that they’re both carbed. I’m also quite pleased my SV1000S runs EFI. Both have their place. But don’t fault the technology for poor application of it.

                • Piglet2010

                  Pretty much every review I have read of the pre-gen Ninjette written since 2000 or so has complained about how poorly the bike runs when cold – and these were new press fleet bikes. And mine was just tuned a couple weeks before I bought it, and it had the issue then.

              • appliance5000

                I miss mine but the long warm up in the city meant you were killing someone pug.

              • ExperienceIsTheBestTeacher

                try twisting the throttle once or twice, every now and then…instead of putting it on full choke and letting it run like a banshee when the block is ice-cold

                • Piglet2010

                  Twist the throttle and it stalls. I need to get it re-jetted some time.

                • SoundsRightToMe

                  maybe it has something to do with how you twist the throttle

      • enzomedici

        Technology? lol. Forget about traction control and ABS, most motorcycles sold in 2014 don’t even know how much gas they have left or what gear they are in. There’s a clearly a lack of technology in the motorcycle world.

        • ExperienceIsTheBestTeacher

          …not seeing how that proves that there is a lack of technology in the bike world

          just that there are bikes that don’t have enough tech to make you happy

    • Zanpa

      You know what, if “disposable” means that after fifteen years, you *might* not find a replacement part for your bike, I can live with it. I’d rather have a “disposable” bike with ABS, TC, EFI, liquid cooling, good brakes… Than a slightly less disposable one without those benefits.

      • Justin McClintock

        And to some degree I agree. Hence my SV1000. But it doesn’t mean there’s no place for the other stuff either. At least until the government mandates it right out of existence anyway.

    • Richard Gozinya

      The thing is, you’re much more likely to need to repair, rebuild or replace that carb than you will any part of a fuel injection system. Much, much more likely.

      • Justin McClintock

        In the short term, yes, that’s true. Actually, it’s probably even true in the long term. But I’ll always be able to get a carb. Guys running around with carburated singles and twins will be able to keep their bikes running from now until the end of time. People won’t be longing for a S1000RR in 30 years like people long for Vincents and Nortons. Because they won’t be able to keep them on the road.

        • dinoSnake

          ” Guys running around with carburated singles and twins will be able to keep their bikes running from now until the end of time.”

          Unless their transistorized electronic ignitions fail. Then again, if we’re not worried about keeping a EI-equipped bike running simply because it has a carb, why ARE we worried about keeping EFI going?

          • Justin McClintock

            To be fair, you can build your own ignition with parts from Radio Shack if you really know what you’re doing. While that’s beyond my level of expertise (by a LOT!!!), I do have a friend who’s done it. Rather ironically, it was to get rid of the points on one of his old bikes.

            • Michael Howard

              Pump gas will become extinct before your “old” bikes do. ;)

            • Jason

              You can also build your own EFI system. Megasquirt is one of the more popular kits.

              • Justin McClintock

                Yeah…but first I’d have to want to!

        • CaptainQueeg

          “Guys running around with carburated singles and twins will be able to keep their bikes running from now until the end of time.”

          Please be serious.

          Yet with that level of optimism you really think that guys with FI engines won’t…and the engines are otherwise the same?

    • devillock

      And that’s why I don’t keep my bike. I sell it after a year or two for the same or near same price I paid for it. Then I buy a new(used) one for the same price or near same price. My monetary loss is minimal and I get to try out all sorts of different bikes all at the cost of my initial investment and yearly operating costs.

    • Justin McClintock

      http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/columns/motodna-jerky-throttles/

      The same emissions regulations that gave us EFI to begin with are now giving us crappy throttle response and fueling. And now we have MotoGP engineers longing for carbs for their street bikes. Looks like I’m not alone.

      • ExperienceIsTheBestTeacher

        it’s not the regulations that are giving us crappy throttle response and fueling

        don’t blame the rooster because the egg didn’t hatch

    • Piglet2010

      Please come over and start my TW200 and Ninjette for me – we have had a long winter and neither will start. The fuel-injected bikes fired right up.

      • Send Margaritas

        Try running the fuel bowls dry before the winter, adding sea-foam in the gas, and doing occasional maintenance.

        • Piglet2010

          Did get them started – the point is that the fuel-injected bikes can be left to sit and fire up with no nonsense under identical conditions.

          Once I had to leave my Honda Civic parked outside for 11 months straight – fired up on the first try with less than 5 seconds of cranking. No fuel stabilizer or battery tender involved. This is not rocket science, but simply manufacturer’s being cheap, which is only acceptable if the bike is priced accordingly.

    • SoundsRightToMe

      I’m thinking that sometimes it’s not so much about what is better as what do you want, you know?
      You can argue about what is good, better or best all day long. But people have preferences and at some level those preferences should be respected.

    • ThinkingInImages

      Speculating about future part supplies is difficult. Many of the tech parts are common to a lot of motorcycles. Imagine what it can be like to find a replacement plastic panel in decade. When I worked on older motorcycles it wasn’t the “hard” parts, it was the “soft” parts I had to hunt down, like carb boots and plastic panels. Those were sometimes uniques to a model.

      I’m sure people thought the same thing with the transition from point and resistors to electronic ignition, kick starting to electric starting, etc. Ride now, worry later. Few mass produced motorcycles are collectible.

      • CaptainQueeg

        One of the great things about Yamahas is that you can find parts in dealer stock 25 years after the bike was sold.
        They’ve gotten pretty good with it, they have an online catalog at yamaha.com that lists every part on the bike, in an exploded view, and it’s tied into a national database. They can find a part for you and have it to you within a week, if it’s available at all (at any bike shop, mechanics shop, aftermarket shop, etc that’s tied into the database) anywhere in the country. Now sure they are not all still being made :) but it’s not like everyone has to replace every part on their bike. So you can be wise and stock up on the frequently-used and critical parts, and then find the off part through a number of different channels. eBay is not the only way to find used parts. It’s a good way but I didn’t find the fairing parts I wanted through eBay. I found them at a local Harley repair-shop though my local Yamaha dealer. Almost as good as Google.

  • chris ordanez

    I wasn’t sure if “cacoethes” was an actual word or an overlooked typo. Thanks for expanding my vocabulary.

    I currently have Rotella T 10W-40 in my bike. Now that I’ve put a few thousand miles on the top end rebuild a buddy helped me out with, I may switch to Rotella synthetic in the spring. I suspect my 36 year old bike really doesn’t care though.

    I won’t pretend to have enough experience to comment on what the ultimate tire is, but I actually don’t have any complaints about the Shinko tires I’m running on my bike. When they’ve worn out, I might get a set of Continental Classic Attack tires because I’m curious to see how much difference radial tires will make on this old beast.

    • Braden

      I’m sure those Shinkos are great. I picked the brand at random because I’ve heard the occasional tire snob talk poorly of them.

      • chris ordanez

        As I understand it, their poor reputation wasn’t necessarily undeserved at one point.

        • Theodore P Smart

          Cheng Shin tires, on the other hand, are a brand I avoid.

          • chris ordanez

            I always forget that they even make motorcycle tires. I usually associate Cheng Shin as being the stock tires on low-quality Walmart Schwinns.

            I’d be willing to bet even they have a halfway decent tire somewhere in their lineup. What I wouldn’t be willing to do, however, is be the guinea pig to find out which tire that is.

            • Piglet2010

              The Cheng Shin tires that came stock on the Honda NHX110 are OK.

    • Michael Howard

      Toecutter!

      • chris ordanez

        Cundalini wants his hand back!

      • chris ordanez

        Cundalini wants his hand back!

  • Robert Horn

    Yeah, I love it when people bellyache and posture about how awful technology is – on the internet.

    • http://krtong.com/ Kr Tong

      Didnt we have writing before the internet? Isnt that like saying we didnt have presidential debates before television?

      • Robert Horn

        Yes, but that’s prehipstoric…

      • appliance5000

        This is typing.

        • CB

          This thing.

      • slowdown

        Yes, but we had fewer inane top 10 lists posing as information.

  • Chris Carter

    I own a 2002 Ducati Monster 620. The original side covers fatigued and broke recently. When I went to replace them, I discovered that aftermarket carbon fiber replacements were less expensive than OEM covers that matched my bike. Now I’m left wondering if anyone ever paints carbon fiber pieces…

    • Richard Gozinya

      Be a rebel, paint it.

    • Jack Meoph

      Most race bikes, at the pro level, have carbon fiber panels, and those are painted. Yes, paint the carbon fiber to match your bike if that’s what you want.

  • Kirk Roy

    There are some significant advantages to the (not so expert) home mechanic in having simpler bikes. It’s not about technological purity but simplicity in working on them. I rebuilt a 2000 kx250 (admittedly made even simpler due to a very limited electrical system) while I do what I can to avoid working on my 08 cbr1krr (which is actually less complex than newer bikes with the additional electronics).

    • Ed Hunt

      Amen. I have an air cooled V-twin with carbs not because I don’t believe in fuel injectors and ABS. It’s because my budget behooves me to buy dented bikes and fix them up. Moreover, my knowledge level — and the lack of a bike mechanic within 40 miles — means I have to teach myself and fix it at home. Hates carbs, hates them. Will take any fuel injected bike anyone wants to throw my way.

      • SoundsRightToMe

        …or you could take the fuel-injection system off a wrecked engine and put it on your bike.
        Most FI systems are throttle-body systems. As long as you aren’t talking about direct injection, that should be an interesting, fun and rewarding challenge for the technically-astute motorcycle hobbyist. Just get the throttle-body hardware, use a thermistor or hot-wire for a “mass air-flow sensor” and program a cheap controller to control the injector duty-cycle as a function of RPM and airflow. Shouldn’t be that difficult, really.

  • metric_G

    I’m on my 3rd Shinko Verge rear and they are pretty good tires, can’t talk about the rest of the brand. The Verge 011s are lasted 6-7k+ miles on my Z1000 and I don’t baby these rears, good dry grip, decent in the wet, last long enough and cost 20-30 bucks less then the similar well known brands. I commute on my bike daily, plus the weekend fun rides adds the miles up fast, easier to pass it by the wife, “look I’m buying the cheaper ones”…

  • Afonso Mata

    What sort of silly posturing do you see in the community?
    “Scooterists aren’t real motorcyclists”

    What oil or tires do you think are clearly the best?
    I don’t know about the oil, but I’m a fan of Michelin’s Power Pure (2CT) and Bridgstone’s BT-016 PRO (3LC).

    • Piglet2010

      I dislike both those tires, because they are not made in sizes to fit my pre-gen Ninjette. Or my Honda NHX110 scooter for that matter.

      • Afonso Mata

        So it’s not like you don’t like them, it’s just you can’t try them on your bikes ;)

        • CaptainQueeg

          no he doesn’t like them because he can’t mount them on the wheels of his favorite bike.
          that’s how his mind works

        • Send Margaritas

          Perhaps he didn’t understand, or agree with the author about ‘needless moto-posturing’.

    • Michael Howard

      I was very unimpressed by the Power Pure SC when I tried them on my Yamaha Majesty (400cc scooter). They had unpredictable traction (they especially seemed to have very little bite on painted lines, much worse than any other tire I’ve ever used) and, despite the dual-compound construction, they didn’t last any longer than normal single-compound tires. Tire of choice for me is the Metzeler FeelFree. Love the Pirelli Diablo but wear them out in 4000 miles.

      • Afonso Mata

        I can’t comment on the longevity, because I’ve only ridden something like 3000 km (1800 mi) on them, but although they can be a bit sketchy in the wet (and I’ll give you the unpredictability on painted lines), on dry tarmac they’re really grippy and inspire confidence for WOT canyon carving.

      • Piglet2010

        How do you find the Pirelli Diablo tires in the wet? The ones that came on my used pre-gen Ninjette are horrible, but they may be age-hardened (about 3½ years old when I crashed on them).

        • Michael Howard

          I loved everything about the Diablos (three sets) I’ve had on my Majesty (except for the wear). I don’t remember ever having any issues in the rain – they stuck like glue dry or wet and made my Majesty think she was a sportbike. ;)

          One thing to keep in mind, though. There may very well be a difference in compounds between the Diablos for “real motorcycles” and the ones for “scooters” (the Majesty wears 14″ fronts and 13″ rears).

    • ThinkingInImages

      What’s a “real motorcyclist”? I can guess what a “fake” motorcyclist is.

      I realize that’s a loaded question….

      • Afonso Mata

        It sure is.
        Another way some people put the sentence is “Scooterists aren’t really motorcyclists”.

  • Justin McClintock

    Oh, and I love the Shinko 705s I’ve got on my DT. They handle it’s 17 furious hamster power superbly!

    • markbvt

      Agreed, Shinko 705s are good tires (though their slightly more aggressive brothers, the Full Bore M-40 and M-41, are even better). Shinko 700s are also very good 60/40ish dual-sport tires for smaller bikes.

      Can’t speak to their street tires though. Never tried them.

  • markbvt

    One point on chicken strips: it kind of depends on where you live. If you’re someplace flat that only has straight roads, wide chicken strips shouldn’t be surprising. If you live someplace with a lot of twisty roads, wide chicken strips (especially on a sportbike) are an indication that the rider probably doesn’t get out to those twisty roads much, and is probably either inexperienced (slowing way down in the corners) or more interested in posing than riding (avoiding rides away from town altogether). That’s not intended to be a value judgement — as long as (s)he is happy, that’s all that matters. But it might suggest that this person is not the best one to invite along on a spirited twisty-roads ride.

    For what it’s worth, I agree that it’s best to save the really aggressive riding for the track, but there are plenty of roads with tight enough twisties to scrub off most of your chicken strips even at legal speeds.

    • CaptainQueeg

      relatively few places on earth only have straight roads

      even if you don’t regularly ride the canyons, your “straight roads” are still going to have *some* curves.

  • Nemosufu Namecheck

    First with the tires – TKC 80s don’t miraculously turn any bike into an ultra-enduro upon mounting, and to be perfectly honest they wear out lightning fast. Heidenau makes much better rubber, but don’t have as much fanboy cred.

    Oil is easy – anything that says quaker state or Pennzoil 15w-50 semi synthetic

    Here is what my community of riders is ridiculous about.
    – Motorcycle must be backed in and on center stand, or you are probably a newb (no matter how much weight/gear you’re packing)
    – Sport bikes are for kids who will figure out what real bikes are in about ten years
    – Must have your “Stich” on for all rides regardless of temp because it is flawless and shows your “battlescars and badges”
    – Don’t even think about missing a weekend meet up
    – Must have tens of thousands of post online somewhere to make up for when you aren’t riding (wife said you have to paint kitchen, mow grass etc)

  • dinoSnake

    I’ll take a bike with ABS, TC, liquid cooling and EFI any day, thank you very much. In fact, that’s exactly what I am looking for in my next bike – all of the above, please.

    In regards to #5, “Bigger is Better”, don’t think it applies only to sportbikes – the poison is EVERYWHERE. As a cruiser rider currently on a 1600, the last dealership I went into to look at bikes told me to look at the next step…an even BIGGER cruiser, more weight and with more horsepower!

    No. No. A thousand times, NO! I am looking to DOWNSIZE and I’m sick and tired of every guy with a small pecker trying to (over)compensate and telling me I have to do the same. I am also SICK of the industry telling me exactly the same thing – move up, get more, get larger, be happy! Almost every bike introduction in the past 8 years has been for a LARGER model – more engine displacement, more weight, higher seat as a result, more power. Also…less fun, lower fuel economy (there are CARS with the same fuel economy as many bikes being sold as new!), more headaches, more hassle in parking etc.

    If I can say anything is that I give the manufacturers a bit of credit – FINALLY – for introducing some more human-sized models. The Honda CB1100 is wonderful, proof that a general-purpose literbike doesn’t have to be a truck. The MT/FZ-09 is fantastic and I hope they develop it into a great all-arounder by adding just a bit more fuel capacity and some accessories. The Monster 1200 actually went LESS extreme, in riding position, than before and looks amazingly promising. The F800GT finally polishes a few of the rough spots of the ST and is a middleweight distance winner. The new VFR800 (continues to) prove that we all don’t need a 1200 to get the job done.

    The industry put us all into a rat race to “bigger & better” but I’m jumping ship. “To add speed, add lightness” indeed.

    • John

      There’s very little middle ground here. As a smaller guy, I don’t like the idea of managing some huge bike with a huge engine and have to be on tip toes at every stop light. One of my pet peeves is that there are no middleweights with shaft when that used to be a big, good selling thing. CX500, VT500, 750 Sabre, etc. Nope, now you have to get a 1200cc bike to get that.

      • Justin Kaylor

        you could get a Guzzi.

        • John

          True. I would love a V7.

          • Justin McClintock

            Or a Honda Deauville, although I think they discontinued it (for the US) a year or two back.

            • John

              Yeah, actually that is a cool bike but just surprisingly super expensive. Not sure why. I would prefer a Deauville to an NC700 probably, but look at the price difference – $11,000, I believe, versus $7000. Wouldn’t mind finding a used one. There’s one nearby and it’s quite pretty.

              • Piglet2010

                My Dullsville was out the door for $8,500, since my local Honda dealer wanted to clear floor space. The high list price was largely due to being manufactured in Catalonia (Spain) and Euro/Dollar exchange rates.

                Not used to it being referred to as cool and pretty. :)

                • John

                  I didn’t think that much in the photos, but the one here looks really pretty in person. Like a mini VFR. Prettier, really, in the silver. Just, I know the engine isn’t the most amazing thing for high speed touring.

                • Piglet2010

                  Yeah, the NT700V runs about 5000 rpm at 70 mph, so it could use a 6th gear. I typically run in the mid 70 mph range on the freeway and the vibration in the handlebars is not bad, but I would not want to spend a lot of time going much faster.

                  Like an older Rolls-Royce, the power is Adequate for 300 pounds of rider and gear (about 55 rwhp). Two-up across a Rocky Mountain pass would be a bit of a strain.

                • John

                  Been there, done that, and on a Hawk GT. Not as fun as it might sound…..

                • Piglet2010

                  The Deauville with the extra 33cc displacement and exhaust valve, as well as fuel injection makes about 7 more horsepower than the Hawk GT from the same basic engine, but weighs about 160 pounds more, so straight-line performance is likely quite comparable.

            • Piglet2010

              Only 17 people or so bought the Deauville/NT700V in the US. And no, mine is not for sale.

          • SoundsRightToMe

            ” It would just be nice if it were more of a rule rather than exception.”

            It ain’t. Deal with it.
            Not hard. You just need one bike, right?
            Man-up, please…buy the V7 and be happy. The world will thank you.

            • John

              Tempting. The NC700X is probably more what I need, despite lacking the shaft.

      • dinoSnake

        Try the new BMW F800GT. Really. It was a tremendous surprise – they fixed all that was “wrong” with the ST, lowering the seat, raising the bars, raising the windshield, increasing fairing coverage, better bags, more polished cockpit finish, better looking, more touring options and electronic assists…it is a really great result from them. It is belt drive so hopefully it will be reliable that way – the only issue with (modern) BMW’s is cost(s) (buy-in and maintenance) and, well, reliability (why is it that so many BMW’s, R’s and F’s, had final drive issues in prior years?)

        I’m in the same boat you are – I’m a (very) average guy and they just keep building these new bikes bigger and bigger, taller and taller. Ducati wants me to believe that their “touring” bike is the Multistrada with a 33-inch seat height? No thanks, I’m on too many varied surfaces to consider holding up a bike that’s over 3.5 times my body weight with my tiptoes.

        • John

          Yes, that one is looking pretty good and the light weight is awesome. My budget is likely going to be a whole lot closer to a CB500 though…..

      • ThinkingInImages

        I had a VT500 Ascot – a brilliant motorcycle.

        It, of course, suffered from Honda’s “form over function” styling – a rectangular headlight and a slightly too small a fuel tank. This particularly “malady” seems to afflict US bound Hondas. It reached a peak with the DN-01, although there’s clues it’s still going on.

        • HellomynameisAG

          I was just looking at one of these, to turn it into my daily for NYC.. Thinking of going this route when i grab one…
          What you think of the front forks? Garbage? or just change the springs and oil and should be good to go?

          • ThinkingInImages

            That’s an FT500 Ascot, the single cylinder, air cooled, model based on the XL500. I had that model, too. The FT and VT were two very different Ascots.

            The VT was bulletproof. The FT starter was a weak point. It could be troublesome if poorly maintained. Other than that both motorcycles handled very well in stock form. So long as the long forks on the FT are straight and not leaking, a change to a slightly heavier fork oil you’d want to do – maybe. They both have air caps on the forks so you can adjust them.

            Other than that both put up with the rugged roads in NYC without a problem and are slowly becoming collectible in clean condition.

      • SoundsRightToMe

        The shaft-drive “middleweights” were all 500 lbs and up with average motors
        shaft-drive has its advantages but it drives up the cost and weight and in 2014 bikes are going down in weight and up in power and fuel-efficiency (while cost corrected for inflation is pretty-much holding steady).

        Again
        you also have the option of buying one of those old “shaft-driven middleweights”.

        Just get one, fix it up and stop whining.

        • John

          Bzzzzt. Incorrect. My VT500 weighed less than a CB500X. 30 years earlier. I see no rise in efficiency at all. My VT got 60mpg easily.

          So, yes, if I find a good one at the same time I have a little disposable cash, I will.

    • SoundsRightToMe

      “No. No. A thousand times, NO! I am looking to DOWNSIZE and I’m sick
      and tired of every guy with a small pecker trying to (over)compensate
      and telling me I have to do the same.”

      Maybe if you’d stop overstating the reality of the situation so often you wouldn’t have that problem since clearly it’s all in your head.

      BTW sorry if new bikes have more power and that really bothers you.
      Of course you could just ignore it and ask your dealer for a smaller, slower model, even an old-model used bike, and then ignore the sad look that he gives you.
      You can even just go buy a Ninja 300 or a CBR250 and be completely happy. Oh also the CB1100 is an upsided CB1000, same with the FZ-09 relative to the FZ-8 that Yamaha no longer sells, and “Monster 1200″ speaks for itself. But they are pretty light compared to older bikes, even if they are more powerful. And it won’t cost you much to get “Drama Queen” painted on your tank in pink letters.

  • John

    ….and the #1 reason everyone thinks the obese CRF250L is better than the KLX250S……..EFI.

  • John

    IMO, sport bikes, period, are the biggest needless moto-posturing thing going. “Look at me, I’m Valentino Rossi….on the street….y’all!!!”

    • Chris McAlevy

      Something tells me you haven’t spent much time riding a sportbike aggressively.

      • John

        Sure, as long as you don’t consider a Ducati Monster or Hawk GT a sport bike. Sport bike riders remind me of audiophiles. I suspect they don’t actually love motorcycling or music, but want to, and so they have to have a certain kind of bike or audio kit to enjoy it and anything less just isn’t good enough for them. I just honestly don’t see the point of a race vehicle that won’t be racing.

        • Braden

          Whoa now guy, us audiophiles aren’t all bad. Some of us just enjoy pristine sound reproduction more than the average bear.

          • John

            Hah, yeah, I am one. I’m talking about the guys that are always complaining about their system’s flaws and can’t enjoy music unless piece of their system costs a ridiculous amount of money or comes from an exotic brand company.

            • Braden

              Very much agree on that. I can really see the parallels now. The audiophile community seems to be rife with people wanting to spend absurd amounts on cabling when they probably couldn’t discern a difference between said cables and coat hangers welded together.

              • John

                My brothers in law have sport bikes that they like to crash a lot. And then they wonder why I don’t want to ride with them.

              • Piglet2010

                What is absurd about spending $40K on audio cables?

                • John

                  As it turns out, I have some $40K speaker cables I’d like to sell. CALL ME!!!!

                • Piglet2010

                  I am using a $10 head-phone extension cable with my Total Bithead right now.

                • Braden

                  Funny story, when I bought my Magnepans I got the hard sell to get the stuff that’s $60 a foot or something ridiculous like that. It was somehow necessary to get the “full sound stage” from a digital source. The salesman’s face somewhat soured when I mentioned I was going to use some old speaker cable I got from RadioShack (and I thought that was overpriced too).

                • Piglet2010

                  $60/foot is inexpensive – $600/foot is not uncommon.

        • E Brown

          As a Hawk GT owner, I’d say it and the Monster are not sport bikes, but rather what they’re now calling street fighters. To continue the car analogy, they’re the equivalent of a BMW M-series or Audi S-series, rather than full-on sports cars/bikes like a Ferrari 458/ CBR600RR.

        • Piglet2010

          Agreed, e.g. I would take a Ninja 650 over a ZX-6R for most things, and at this point even for track days.

    • E Brown

      I disagree. Sportbikes are no different (and MUCH cheaper) than owning a Ferrari or Porsche, and both companies say about 2% of buyers hit the track in those. If you’ve got the time and the roads, sports cars and sportbikes are fun just to take out, even if you never push their limits.

      • John

        I agree to an extent, but the thing is that a whole lot of motorcycles perform at or near that level anyway, but are much more practical. People buy Porsches and Ferraris to show off. Give me an Audi S4 Avant any day. Just as fun and a whole lot more useful. That’s how I view sport tourer or modern ADV style bike (though the need to make a street bike look all offroady makes me queasy too).

        • Piglet2010

          I would be tempted to spend big bucks on a Ducati Multistrada based bike with a slightly lower seat and sport-touring bodywork. Hard for me to get past its wasp meets Transformer styling.

        • SoundsRightToMe

          because it isn’t possible that people buy Porsches and Ferraris because they are nice cars
          just like they buy expensive suits because they are great suits

          the fact that they look good, I guess that doesn’t really matter either

          “chick magnets”? nah, a completely irrelevant concern

          Ultimately you have to give the Ferrari guy credit in that regard.

          A car like a 458 Italia?

          That is going to impress a woman WAY more than a Gixxer.
          A car like an F40? That would impress *ME* way more than a 1200 Panigale or HP4.

          Now you’re just entering the Ludicrous Zone…a bike loses each and every time you compare a nice bike to a nice car unless and until the weather is absolutely perfect and you have no need for a car whatsoever…I like bikes, don’t get me wrong, but I would never say that my bike beats a nice car. Never come out of my mouth, I don’t care if my bike can do 185 and the quarter in 10.5 sec I’m not that stupid.

          • John

            Porsches are more luxury car than race cars. Many bikes would be like driving around in a stock car at the very least.

            • CommonSenseOnWheels

              no one should argue with you about Porsches, clearly you are tapped into the design team at Weissach

              • John

                I’ve driven them. The 911 is an extremely comfortable car. It is not a race car. It would be more a BMW R1200S.

                • CaptainQueeg

                  “I’ve driven them. The 911 is an extremely comfortable car. It is not a race car.”

                  dude it’s a race-car the moment you put it on a track and race it

                • John

                  Okay, so is a Harley Sportster, by that standard. Porsche 911s aren’t good enough to win races, they are luxury cars.

                • SelfDeceptionMaximized

                  “The 911 is an extremely comfortable car.”

                  None are so blind as those who refuse to even look.
                  I give up on this train of discussion.

                  You obviously have never seen people actually *racing* even bone-stock cars, so blinded you were by their fine comfortable interiors.

    • Campisi

      You get a point for spelling “y’all” correctly.

    • SoundsRightToMe

      nonsense on several points, for one how many people even know who Rossi is or care

  • Red Spade

    regarding those chicken strips, my husband rides quite conservatively on regular roads and always within his limits. He never does stuff to show off or go crazy in the turns. Yet, within 20 minutes of putting new tires on he has no chicken strips. I don’t think that the lack of them on your daily commute shows you’re pushing to the max at all. A skilled rider that knows their machine and feels it throughout can aquire that without trying. I’m personally not there yet and still have half an inch myself, but watching hubby ride in front of me shows me just how peaceful and smooth a skilled rider can be without looking crazy aggressive. I suppose this also has to do with the roads people travel on. If you ride straight city streets and highway then of course you’ll never get that lean on.
    anyways, just my two cents for whatever it’s worth :)

    • John

      I don’t even know how you preserve chicken strips.

    • Justin McClintock

      That brings up an interesting point. I mostly commute. My DT175 has no chicken strips. Why? Intersections. I have to turn. I’m honestly more likely to lean the bike over further just pulling away from a dead stop than just about any other time. Maybe it’s because I just like to get it moving before starting the turn, but most of my “from a dead stop” turns end up being pretty darn sharp and wear on those same chicken strips more than anything else. Of course maybe it’s just because that bike weighs next to nothing and it’s fun to do that…my bigger bikes still have them!

    • Piglet2010

      An angle grinder can remove chicken strips in short order.

      • Tupack Shackur

        Oh god. Hopefully this doesn’t show up in a future “posturing” article.

      • ExperienceIsTheBestTeacher

        try it, take some photos and get back to us

  • John

    Another annoying thing. “I’m better safety equipped than you”. Safety is good. No one debates that. But the shaming going on is pretty ridiculous. WTF cares? If you want to kill yourself, be my guess. But it’s worse when someone who rides the most dangerous vehicles on the planet instead of getting in a safe car, lectures another person about safety. It’s annoying. Why not chain mail? Shouldn’t everyone be wearing chain mail if they don’t want to be idjut noobs?

    • E Brown

      Chain mail? Are you nuts? I wear a mail made from woven carbon fiber links over an perforated Nomex sheath with pockets for D3O armor. ;)

      • Braden

        Nomex sheathed carbon fiber mail? Are you crazy? Step up to something serious, like titanium-reinforced mithril lined over suits with graphene gel inserts!.

      • John

        I don’t ride anywhere without my patented Saddam Hussein Magic Belt.

      • SoundsRightToMe

        The earnest motorcyclist regularly leaps out of the back of a moving pickup-truck to ensure the effectiveness of their safety-gear

        better safe than sorry

    • Nate Terrill

      My chainmail is +5 vs. abrasion and enchanted with Spirit of the Fire Blade.

      • John

        My chain mail is rusting due to spirit of urine!

  • mms

    “My-style-or-brand-of-bike vs your-style-or-brand-of-bike makes me better than you” . Exhausting.

  • Michael Love

    Chicken Strips are deceptive. Someone with bad form, leaning against the turn, could have wider strips than someone who knows how to lean off the bike.

    • SoundsRightToMe

      That’s extremely unlikely.
      However chicken strips do not precisely correlate with the riders “nerve” in cornering, no. That I agree with.
      And as always just because you’ve got the nerve to corner near the edge of your tires doesn’t mean that you’re anyone I’d like to emulate while riding.

      I would prefer to have wide chickenstrips and an undamaged bike any day over narrow chickenstrips and a scraped-up banged-up bike.

    • Davidabl2

      …If they hadn’t wrecked the bike first.

  • John

    BTW, is there a needed form of moto-posturing?

    • eviladrian

      Hating scooters? ;-)

      • John

        Touché. You win this time eviladrian……this time….

      • Doug Erickson

        :-(

      • Michael Howard

        Yeah, “real motorcycle” riders hate being outridden by a scooter. ;)

        • eviladrian

          Disclosure: I ride a scooter to work every day. I always give a nod to any “real motorcycle” riders and see if I can get one to nod back. Score so far: 0

          • Michael Howard

            I know the feeling. Here in H-D land (Iowa USA), I’ve developed the bad (?) habit of following out of town (assuming they’re headed that way) anyone who gives me stink eye just so I can see the look on their face when I pass them between 70 and 90 mph (whatever it takes).

          • Piglet2010

            I was shocked when a guy on a H-D Street Glide waved to me first when I was on the Elite 110.

            • eviladrian

              I reckon I could lean over at a stoplight and pick the average Harley rider’s pockets and the bugger still wouldn’t look at me!

              • Michael Howard

                I kinda get a kick out of the curious ones trying to sneak a look at my Majesty with no one seeing them do it. Wouldn’t want to be caught showing even the slightest interest in something not made in Milwaukee – let alone (gasp!) a scooter.

          • Tupack Shackur

            I gotta say, the practice of waving while on a motorcycle is pretty cool. Makes you feel like a secret society. Only time it gets tiresome is when the weather’s really nice and there are tons of motorcyclists on the road.

            But otherwise, it’s nice to feel a connection with cruiser riders when I’m on my sportbike.

            • Michael Howard

              When I was growing up in the 60′s and 70′s, you either rode a motorcycle or you didn’t ride a motorcycle. If you rode, you were special. You were part of The Group. Didn’t matter if you rode a Honda, a BMW, an H-D, whatever – you rode a motorcycle.

              When I’m out riding and enjoying that special feeling that only a motorcycle can supply and I see someone else riding, it’s just “instinct” to assume we’re sharing that feeling – even if indirectly. So without thinking about it, I’ll give a subtle little nod or wave of acknowledgement. Unfortunately, nowadays there’s so much insecurity among riders who base their self-worth on what KIND of bike they own/ride/like, they totally lose track of the fact that they’re RIDING A MOTORCYCLE and, whether they choose to accept it or not, we riders are ALL part of a pretty special group of weirdos who get off on doing something most “normal” people can’t even understand.

              • Tupack Shackur

                Absolutely. Reading these comments on how people disparage scooter riders made me realize, I would ride just about anything in respectable shape just to be out there on two wheels. It’s so different.

                • Piglet2010

                  I do not understand the scooter hate. Heck, sometimes I will take longer rides through the country on mine (primarily on farm-to-market roads, so I do not hold up traffic).

                • ExperienceIsTheBestTeacher

                  Scooters are often actually less safe than motorcycles.
                  Their front suspension is usually well-underdamped and tends to do really bad things in extreme situations.

                  Ever seen that kind of funky side to side weaving that is the harbinger of a wheelie about to go very bad?

                  The front ends of scooters do the same thing…like a driver who oversteers a car and keeps overcorrecting to each side and eventually just spins out. The steering is very difficult to control if the scooter hits a large bump. Not to mention the crappy brakes and relative lack of power compared to a real bike, same with the lack of ground-clearance combined with low stability from the small tires. So I see them as riding almost as fast as cars on a two-wheeled vehicle that is far less safe.

                • Piglet2010

                  My scooter has none of those handling or braking issues, but then it is a Honda and not some no-name knock-off.

                  And nothing prevents one from wearing gear on a scooter. When I ride mine I have better protective gear than 99% of the other people I see on motorcycles (or 99.99% if I wear the Roadcrafter) – almost none have lids, few have armored jackets, and even fewer have armored pants and proper motorcycle gloves and boots.

                • CommonSenseOnWheels

                  …right, because the fact that it’s a Honda means that it has good handling. Sure.
                  Maybe for a scooter, but still.

                  But thanks for telling us that nothing prevents a scooter rider from wearing gear.
                  Especially if they overcome the fact that they are on a scooter and not a motorcycle.

                • Michael Howard

                  Riding any bike with “handling issues” requires even more skill than riding a bike with great handling. I enjoy the challenge of riding my Yamaha Majesty aggressively as it wallows in bumpy 70mph curves.

                  And I’m one of the few riders of any “motorized two-wheeler” in my area who wears gear of any kind. ATGATT for me.

                • CommonSenseOnWheels

                  how could you be so stupid, seriously.
                  You really think that a difficult bike to ride makes the rider highly-skilled? Seriously?

                  Then you should ride around and have people shoot at your tires. In short order you’d win MotoGP races.

      • Cory McNair

        An acquaintance of mine attends charity poker runs on a Vespa GTS 250, accelerating past the pack at each stoplight.

  • Dave Day

    The form of motorcycle posturing I hate the most is when groups of people stand next to their “blinged out” bikes in front of a restaurant or bar. I guess this pisses me off so much because they only ride to be cool, not because they love to ride.

    • killian101

      I’ll add to this: They only ride on side streets, No freeways.

    • SoundsRightToMe

      but if they like to ride because it looks cool that’s the same thing
      maybe they just are cool and riding is just one aspect of their lifestyle

  • Charles Quinn

    I love it when the guy who tells you how he shaved 1.2 kg off the weight of his bike with carbon parts is carrying 12 kg of beer-induced flab around his waistline.

  • Charles Quinn

    Not hardware-related, but the guys who ride through traffic with their left hand resting on their thigh, just to let everyone know how boring they find riding this slowly.

    • Nate Terrill

      Sometimes I do it for a few seconds to relieve cramping in my left hand during long rides.

      • Charles Quinn

        Sure, I’ve done that. I’m talking about the ones who coast among the cars in that sustained pose as if they’re an 18th century gent trotting through the village, about to swipe some slow moving peasant with their riding crop.

        • Nate Terrill

          Move aside, groundling!

        • Braden

          Your imagery made me laugh out loud at work quite loudly. Upvote for you good sir.

    • Dave Day

      I do this… but it’s not look cool. My bike is used on the track more than it is on the street so the ergonomics are very uncomfortable. Resting me left arm enables me sit more upright and reallocate the weight distribution away from my wrists and back. Also, I am likely to be bored while doing this on the highway.

  • Lord Triumph

    I was really interested in this article until I started to read some of the posts from members who have, yet again, turned another discussion into a past v future technology debate. It’s so boring.

  • Scott Ellison

    The photo of the Monster 1100 EVO seat cowl is misleading, isn’t it? It’s an L-twin air-cooled bike, and so 1078 ccs isn’t really that powerful. I bought it precisely for that reason – so I can use it everyday, comfortably. Personally, it sounds like you’re making the same mistake you just pointed out: technological purism. Who cares if the engineers discovered it was best to design that particular bike with a liter-sized engine – they did their research and arrived at the best possible specs for that particular type of bike.

    • Braden

      Nothing whatsoever. I completely agree with your assessment of the M1100EVO. It’s a photo of one of my personal bikes. I only chose it because it’s the only bike I own that has a “liter sized” number on it somewhere, not because of the specific model.

    • Tupack Shackur

      Is being air-cooled a signifier of lower performance for a given displacement? Because it’s always boggled my mind that the 650 equivalent for a cruiser would be like an 883. Any idea why that is? Weird to think that an engine’s cooling might be the ceiling to its power output.

      • Davidabl2

        Power output goes to zero if the engine seizes up ;-) Actually, it’s easier to meet emissions requirements if the engine runs at a consistent temperature.And engine seizures become an even bigger potential problem when the same requirements require running very lean air/fuel mixtures. That’s why the air-cooled volkswagen engine disappeared in the USA when it did.

        • Piglet2010

          Much easier to keep the valves from over-heating with liquid cooling, so in general a liquid cooled engine can use a higher compression and run hotter overall, both of which improve the amount of power from a given amount of fuel.

          • CommonSenseOnWheels

            dude listening to you talk about motorcycle technology is like listening to a dog bark at the moon

      • SoundsRightToMe

        Don’t listen to these knuckleheads…liquid-cooling is significant for sure but the reason that a cruiser engine is “underpowered” relative to a sportbike is that HP is directly proportional to RPM and cruiser engines are tuned for low and midrange torque, while a sportbike engine is generally tuned for midrange and high-rpm power (the more “sporty” it is, the higher the desired power-peak in terms of RPM…generally-speaking). Even more so if the engine is designed to rev at higher than normal RPMs. All else the same, if the torque-peak is the same in terms of value, the engine whose torque-peak occurs at the highest RPM will make the most HP. Your pushrod Harley with the torque-peak at 2000 rpm isn’t going to make squat in terms of HP/Liter doesn’t matter whether it’s air or liquid-cooled. It’s 5000rpm redline will just make matters worse. But around 2000rpm it might actually make more power than the latest-tech sportbike of the same displacement.

        Liquid vs air-cooling is another chapter of motorcycling tech that I won’t get into here but keep in mind that many benefits oft credited to liquid-cooling are actually due to improvements in other areas of engine-management. It’s all part of a large puzzle.

        • Tupack Shackur

          That makes a lot of sense. Do they really realize at 5k?

          And I’m assuming you mean the cruiser engine at 2k makes more power than a sport bike engine at 2k, right? Not a 2k vs peak?

          • CommonSenseOnWheels

            that’s why they publish dyno-charts, dood
            just google the charts

  • http://cartisien.com/ Jeff Witters

    Just 5 more reasons I prefer to ride alone. If you really want to see a flame war, post any of these items on Reddit.

    • Braden

      I know right? r/motorcycles has really pushed the envelope in getting offended about literally anything.

  • Mohd Shahruzy

    the most Idiotic Posturing at my place is the any other helmets are not as good as Shoei/Arai while the same idiots rather pay 3X the price for Shoei J-force or Arai Ram3 openface compared to DOT certified fullface helmets

  • Charlie Kelley

    Yeah you bring up done good points. What to start an argument on any Holding forum abd just post that you’re going to use a car tire on the back and just sit back and wait for all the name calling. The ignorance is so thick sometimes that, while in the Army, I was ordered NOT to use a car tire, on my own bike. Sheesh!

  • mms

    Oh another one that cracks me up is when people brag about how low the miles are on their bikes. You’ve ridden almost 1000 whole miles in the past 3 years? On a meticulously-maintained street legal bike dripping with (depending on the bike) farkles/chrome/carbon/billet? Um.. congratulations?

    • Michael Howard

      Gotta protect that resale value, doncha know.

    • Davidabl2

      …unless the next sentence reveals that it’s a track bike ;-)

      • mms

        Aha, but that’s why i specified “street legal” ;)

        • Piglet2010

          For me the Deauville and the Elite 110 get the lion’s share of use – to use a bike as transportation, locking storage is a must in my opinion.

          • mms

            Locking storage is probably important even if you’re using it as a coffee table ;) Recently met someone who was bragging about how the Brutale he bought a year ago only has 500 miles on it. Sigh.

            • Piglet2010

              On the scooter I wear knee armor under Kevlar jean and plain black SiDi Air Strada boots. My full face lid, armored textile mesh jacket and gloves go under the seat when parked, and almost no one guesses that I rode in on a scooter.

              • mms

                I miss being able to dress light! :) The weather here is just starting to get nice, I saw more other bikes on the street today than I have in the past 6 weeks combined. Looking forward to doing a bit of needless posturing about how I ride all year. Virginia is seeming much less moto friendly than Cali was. Lots of bewildering hostility. Maybe I shouldn’t carry the helmet around ;)

        • Davidabl2

          I see some very nice bikes on trailers near the local racetracks (Sears Point in Marin County CA, Laguna Seca, Monterey County CA)..and those bikes often sport license plates under the seat:-) chrome though, as you say. Someone else called carbon fiber “Ducati chrome” and I’d thin that the other “farkles” have at least a good pretense of being performance oriented. And for all I’d know, in California maybe its now fashionable to put nice paint on race plastics? In GB, NZ or OZstralia fashions are likely different, i.e.
          places where saying “farkle” is more common :-)

  • timdnml

    <> Well, there’s the guy who uses words like ‘cacoethes’ when he’s obfuscating…

    • Braden

      I know right? What a pretentious jerk!

    • Davidabl2

      That may be the first time i’ve ever had to look up a word used in an english-language motorcycle blog.
      At least first time i didn’t have to look it up in the “Urban Dictionary

  • Jack Meoph

    The first thing the Ducati salesperson showed me after I bought my Monster was the parts catalog…and it was mostly carbon fiber doodads that replaced the OEM plastic bits. I didn’t want to just laugh in his face, but I’m not tossing good money on a weight savings that I could manage by not eating a couple of (small) meals a week, if I even cared in the first place. (which I don’t) I have a carbon fiber license plate frame that I bought, on sale, at Cycle Gear for $5, for my ZX-6R and I put it on Ducati after I sold my Kawi. The Monster is staying bone stock until the 2 year warranty is up, and it will probably stay pretty much stock after that as well.

    • TechGuy5489

      I’ve read that a good rule of thumb is that a pound of unsprung weight is worth four pounds of sprung weight at speed. If you upgraded your wheels to forged aluminum/magnesium or carbon fiber and those new wheels are 10lbs lighter than the old ones it’d be roughly similar to losing 40lbs of sprung weight. You, the rider, are sprung weight. Do you have 40lbs to lose?

      Losing the *right* weight on your bike will, for the first let’s say the first 5k (wheels, rotors, 520 chain/sprockets) you spend, be more effective than losing weight as a rider unless you’re giant and massively out of shape.

      • zedro

        Nit pick but wheel weight is not about unsprung weight so much as rotational inertia, lighter wheels mean faster acceleration and braking and the gain is exponential. This is why cyclists covet uber expensive light rims and tires overr almost anything else, much easier to spin up. Weird that it’s not mentioned all that much in moto circles?

        • Davidabl2

          A bicyclist’s ‘powerplant’ is capable of sustaining less than 1hp output, and racing rules preclude any means of reducing aero drag by use of fairings and/or recumbent bikes. Braking and acceleration may be. less important than rolling resistance in most kinds of racing,certainly in criterium and Tour de France style long-distance racing. Direct comparison of bicycle performance and motorcycle performance may be misleading

          • Piglet2010

            In most cases a slightly heavier but more aerodynamic wheel will be faster than a lighter but less aerodynamic wheel on a drop-bar road bike. Rolling resistance matter too – it has been found that the increase in rolling resistance for tires narrower than 23mm is greater than the aerodynamic advantage gained.

            If you can sustain 0.6 horsepower for an hour on a push bike, you are a world class time trialist. Most club cyclists are in the 1/6 to 1/3 horsepower range.

            Acceleration rates on a push bike are so slow that the inertial differences of heavy and light wheels disappear into the “noise” of other performance factors.

            • Davidabl2

              you sir, are more erudite than I but our conclusions seem to match : “Direct comparison of bicycle performance (factors)and motorcycle performance(factors) may be (are) misleading”

              From what you write bicycle wheel weight as opposed to rolling resistance and aerodynamics has the same considerations as all other weight in a performance bicycle; every few grams count. True of frames stems etc etc as well as wheels. Physics of course,
              with a 1/6 hp “poweplant” :-) But. as a bicyclist myself, I’ve always suspected that there’s a psychological effect on the rider as well.

              • whyioughta

                let me guess
                because motorcycles are not bicycles?

                hm

                • Davidabl2

                  in the immortal words of Homer Simpson: “D’Oh”

                  Apples aren’t oranges, but that in itself doesn’t tell you whether the sugar content of the fruits is similar or not.

                • CommonSenseOnWheels

                  (…still searching for relevance to any reasonable topic previously under discussion…when did this become PelotonApart…)

                • Davidabl2

                  That’s an easy question:not yet. Because we aren’t discussing which are the best riding tights, and the pros&cons of leather vs carbon fiber seats. Or how many grams the rims weigh(or not discussing it all the time anyway)

      • Jack Meoph

        I will never put any kind of $$$$ into wheels. It’s absurd unless you’re racing or doing track days (a lot of them). And anyways, i was talking about replacing OEM plastic bits for CF.

        • whyioughta

          …what?

          you think that motorcycles have steel wheels, these days?

          Someone mentioned here earlier that 10lbs of unsprung weight is the equivalent of 40lbs of sprung weight when it comes to handling. Fine make me comment that it’s actually equivalent to 60lbs of unsprung weight if that sprung weight is rotational mass, such as wheels. You want to ride a bike with 18inch steel wheels, go right ahead. Why not get some nice wire-spoked wheels with tubed tires while you’re at it.

          • Piglet2010

            Almost all new motorcycles with off-road pretensions come with spoked wheels with steel rims – please pay attention.

            • CommonSenseOnWheels

              when did this conversation focus on ADV bikes or even DP bikes, or any bike with “off-road pretensions”?
              you’re dumbing-down again

    • whyioughta

      yeah but just think of not eating *and* the weight-savings from the CF parts…

  • Chanson

    “We really could use a good rain to wash off the debris that has been collecting on the roads”
    . . .followed closely by “It’s not a good time to ride because it just rained and the oils and debris have been stirred up”
    I have since deduced that the best (and only) time to ride is 3-10 days after it has rained, and no other time, which makes California the worst place to ride with such infrequent rainfall.

    Or how about “You’d be better off losing the weight from your belly!” Yeah, well, this assumes everyone is overweight, and since I’m not as fat/alcoholic as you, what option does that leave me with?

    “New technology is complicated and going to fail” Then go ride a bicycle.

  • John Tiedjens

    BRAVO! Haha you so nailed it! Most bikes are well beyond the normal or even well above normal rider’s capacity to use it fully that CC preference or even brand is a moot point. I used to have more snobbery about what people should ride and if it made them riders or posers BUT with age comes wisdom and I love anything 2 wheels. I just watched a vid of a guy on a Yam 50 gt something rockin the twisties like he owned them. All have certain charms and validity. Yes even the ones that people insist on dressing up as pirates to ride. If I could own 1 of everything…. I would. As a life long enthusiast I think it should be 1st and foremost about the pure joy of the sport. The rest of the penis puffery….. well that’s all that it is.

    • SoundsRightToMe

      …what? I shouldn’t care what displacement the engine is or what brand the bike is because I can’t use the full capability of either the engine or the bike?
      What have you been smoking?

      the rest is “penis-puffery”? come on, man. Your post is penis-puffery, you puffing on your own penis.

    • SelfDeceptionMaximized

      ” Most bikes are well beyond the normal or even well above normal rider’s
      capacity to use it fully that CC preference or even brand is a moot
      point.”

      That makes absolutey no sense whatsoever.

      The fact that I can’t use the full performance of a motorcycle means that my preference of motorcycle or BRAND even is moot?

      Sheer idiocy.
      I mean you couldn’t have said something more stupid if you were adutioning for the role of “Dumb-Ass” in “Dumb, Dumberer and one effing Dumb-ass in case two stupid f*ks weren’t enough to entertain you”.

  • JT

    I’m instructor in the Navy and have seen the “Bigger is Better” problem crop up several times. I usually try to tell them to start on something can learn to ride, not just mange power. It goes in one ear and out the other most of the time though. I had one student that said his family would consider him wussy if he got anything less than a 600. It’s crazy. As far as my chicken strips on Bonnie, they’ll come off when I’m good and ready.

    • Piglet2010

      Well, a KLR650 would not be a bad first bike for a 6’4″+ guy.

  • Send Margaritas

    By far the most obnoxious type of moron is the one that tries to convince you what kind of motorcycle you should ride, which is always the kind of motorcycle that they ride. Regardless of whether they are a HD guy, or SportBike guy, or an guy, the ones that are so worried about what YOU ride can’t even carry on an objective discussion.

    • KeithB

      Even worse is the person that tell you what bike you should be riding and they don’t even have a bike!
      “Oh , well, I’m not buying a bike until I can get the one I want (Harley?) ’cause my friends will razz me.”

      • Michael Howard

        Non-rider: “Why didn’t you get a Harley?”
        Me: “Because I don’t like to ride slow.”
        (I currently ride a 400cc scooter)

    • SoundsRightToMe

      I can’t say that I agree with the concept, different people advocate different bikes for different reasons

      and there are always going to be people giving bad advice, that’s part of the game

  • http://krtong.com/ Kr Tong

    That’s it right there. The “preachy safety anuses” or “psa” are a lot of my friends. They’re good people who’ve just had more than their fair share of crashes, or have seen enough crashes that they’re a little emotionally frail from it all. We all become psa’s from time to time. If you ever find yourself being a psa, it’s time to give motorcycling a break and let your nerves settle.

  • whyioughta

    When did this site become a lot less “news” and a lot more “just a soapbox for the editors’ opinions, sensible or nonsense”?

  • whyioughta

    ” Is it a good idea for a commuter, newbie, or frequent in-town rider to
    be using all of their available traction around traffic and other road
    hazards? ”

    …dude, how big are their chickenstrips. First and foremost.

    “More sportbike riders than not lack the necessary skill to use the advantages provided by a liter class bike.”

    …and we’re back to this again. You can say the same about a 250. But what amazes me is how in one breath you say it’s ok even wise to not use all the performance of a set of tires even if you could, but in the next breath it’s a problem because most riders can’t use all the advantages of a liter engine. What I’m seeing in these articles is that you are just as biased and prejudiced as any other rider, the difference being that you have a website to stand on when you preach.

    • Braden

      Let me put it another way.

      I’m for riders improving their skill, giving themselves time which may include at times having chickenstrips.
      I’m against riders who disparage others who don’t have the skill to scrub off their chickenstrips.

      I’m for riders growing to use the full capabilities of a liter sports bike. More power to em (no pun intended)
      I’m against riders who use merely owning a literbike as a way to position themselves higher on some ineffable bike hierarchy over other riders of smaller displacement bikes, regardless of actual skill or knowledge.

      I’m really focusing on attitudes about things (posturing) versus the actual things here.

      • whyioughta

        It’s not always about skill, man, sometimes it’s just about not having the balls to do it.
        Those tires speak volumes.
        And then sometimes it’s about having more balls than brains, eh.
        How does the old saying go? Posers, like fools, are easily-exposed, by the slightest bit of pressure or test of fire.
        You worry about what other people think to the point where you make a fool of yourself, c’est la vie.

        Likewise talking crap about things just because you don’t like them is a good way for people to find out what you’re really made of.

        • Scott T

          This has got to be some of that irony and wit that others have mentioned, right?

          • Davidabl2

            It is to be hoped so.

            • whyioughta

              …hey, a guy who is wrong half the time is right half the time too.

        • zedro

          I’m impressed how everyone is not getting trolled by this clown.

          • Piglet2010

            I’m thinking it is one of our old “friends” with a new Disqus account.

        • Justin Cole

          Oh… because it’s about looking cool and impressing people. That’s a good reason. Because appearances matter. Because appearing as though you have ability, or even the capacity to accomplish a thing, is more impressive and admirable than developing a set of skills.

          • Davidabl2

            Equally, anyway.

          • ExperienceIsTheBestTeacher

            You’re trying to take the issue to a bad place instead of just accepting that it is in a good place.

            No one is saying that appearing to be a skilled rider is more impressive and admirable than actually being a skilled rider.

            No one is defending such a statement, there’s no reason for you to take it to that level except to avoid facing the simple fact that appearances do matter and most people don’t want to look like goofballs on motorcycles.
            No one is forcing you to give bad advice, no one is forcing you to defend nonsense.
            And I’m not going to stand here and try to keep you from poking yourself in your logical eye with a logical stick.
            But don’t try to convince others to do the same stupid thing that you are doing.
            If someone gives you a bottle of Drano, that doesn’t mean that they think that it would be a good idea for you to drink it.
            Would it be a good idea to keep it around in case your toilet gets clogged? Sure. But drinking it is your own stupidity.

        • Aaron Baumann

          I dunno… my kids think I look pretty cool on my 250. That’s good enough for me.

          • whyioughta

            your kids need to get out more

  • Campisi

    “How should I break in my engine, guys?”

    Sit back, grab some beer, and roast marshmallows over those crackling flames.

  • octodad

    you’re right about repairing scoot. on your own. had to retire the dwell meter and timing light for my new truck. do not miss them. own Honda w/ ABS-DCT it is a blast to ride. just keep the oil fresh and gas tank full. runs like a clock. bet I hit 100k before it wears out.

  • Piglet2010

    Why would anyone wear anything but a ‘Stich?

    • Send Margaritas

      Because Aerostitch is mostly/completely non-leather. Abrasion resistance wise, leather rocks.

      • Michael Howard

        So what’s your point? ;)

      • Piglet2010

        Oops, I forgot the ” ;) “. But since you wrote a dissertation, experience has shown that a rider is more likely to slide in a textile suit than in leathers.

        “•Leather jackets have a history, tradition and style which are hard to beat.
        Think,* Marlon Brando.*”

        Please, I would rather not be associated biker gang culture.

    • Campisi

      Everyone who has ever said a Roadcrafter is too much money has spent ~80% of the cost of one on a jacket soon afterwards without batting an eyelid. Add the variable of riding pants into the gear equation, and a Onesie becomes an excellent value.

      • Piglet2010

        The Roadcrafter can also be altered to account for Dunlop’s Disease and repaired in Duluth, so it can easily be used for 20 years or more.

        • Send Margaritas

          That’s true. I’ve seen folks in riding in Duluth-rehabbed ’70(s) blaze orange plastic roadcrafter bell-bottomed riding pants. One had a goldfish bowl he wore as a necklace, like in ‘What about Bob’. They seemed happy in that outfit, and everybody on the road got as far away from them as they could. Very effective, and a fashion statement.

  • IRS4

    “Let’s agree to view the improvements coming out of the bike industry as they are: refinements that keep us safer and increase our enjoyment of the sport.”

    Not all refinements increase my enjoyment. I like things that enhance MY control of the bike, and not those that take away from it. Smooth fuel injection, strong sensitive brakes, bring em on. Auto trans and linked or ABS brakes? Leave them off. It is mastering the complex mechanical dance that calls me to ride.

    • Piglet2010

      You can keep anything with smart-phone connectivity *OFF* my bike, thank you.

      • zedro

        But what else is motorcycle freedom if you aren’t pro-actively ignoring your Bosses phone calls piped directly to your bike via a 7″ LCD touch screen grafted into your console? (Please leave a message arrrrrrrr…..)

        • SoundsRightToMe

          In the age of 24/7/365 connectedness you can’t really get away with that.
          It is wise to at least know who is calling and to judge accordingly.
          Frankly with many phones these days you can set it to only ring for certain callers,
          and if my boss calls I want to at least know that they called even if I’m 250 miles away from home in the mountains.

    • whyioughta

      stop with your damm facts and common-sense, there, you troublemaking hooligan.

  • Slacker

    There is only one time I’ll give someone crap for chicken-strips: If they’re talking sh**. On occasion I ride with sport bike guys who have more chicken strips than a KFC and tell me that they’ll slow down in the twisties for me. I’ll keep up with or pass them more often than not (mind you I’m riding a 2004 R1150RS with 112,000 miles).

  • ThinkingInImages

    You forgot the fake carbon fiber bits, the ultimate in “tinsel”. That’s right up there with the store bought racing stickers. We’re focusing on sports motorcycles here, but what about the over-chromed, over tasseled, two wheeled “parade floats”? All this “plumage” is fine – when you’re stopped. None of it means anything when you’re moving.

    I’m done with carbs, just as much as I never want to set points again, or change spark plugs more than I have to. I bought a motorcycle to ride often, not fix/maintain often. I’ll worry about the future, parts and repairs, when it’s the present. Bring on the technology.

    I’ve always like small motorcycles, primarily because I’m “compact” in size. It’s a good matchup. It’s been a few decades. I haven’t outgrown them.

    I have my preferences in tires and oil but not enough to get into a heated debate over. Get the best tires and oil you can afford and change them often – not when you’re thinking “I can get a little more time….” These are two items (brakes make the third item) you don’t want to be lazy about.

    • Braden

      I wanted to do parade floats quite badly, but the fruit was hanging so low on that one.

    • Cory McNair

      I would concede that certain tires may work differently for different bikes and/or riding styles, but I have never figured out the oil thing. Use a brand (or directly competing brand) and weight recommended by your manufacturer with a grade that is safe for clutches if you have a wet clutch and quit thinking that funny vibration you felt was a direct result of inferior oil and not what you had for lunch that day.
      This is tempting me to go trolling on the .ms boards, though. ;)

    • SoundsRightToMe

      Oil, to me, is “oil”, frankly the mfg recommended oil and oil-change interval is fine for me…I don’t have a spare $10k lying around to experiment with different oils, filters and what-not.

      Tires are a different story, especially since at least every 10k I’m putting on a new set. That’s a lot of familiarity with whatever I get.

      Whatever doesn’t actually kill me makes me a safer rider and a wiser consumer :)

  • Jeoff

    purism has nothing to do with simplicity. I like carbed bikes because it leaves less error to computers and means they can be fixed with simple methods and simple tools, something that is not possible with EFI. Older styles of carbs and other parts have readily available aftermarket kits for maintaining them and rebuilding them. Go step in front of a bus you fucking retarded hipster.

    • KeithB

      I have a number of older carbed bikes and while “fun” to work on, tuning a bank of 4 carbs is a PITA!
      I would rather be able to tune EFI with a computer. It’s more flexible and accurate.
      There is no comparison with the ease of tuning an FJR 1300 vs a ’74 CB550

      Having said that, when you do manage to wrestle a multi carb bike into a smooth running treat, it’s very satisfying.

  • Mykola

    Not to buy a WSBK machine to commute on, I’d guess.

    • enzomedici

      That’s what makes the commute fun. You don’t have to ride like an idiot, but if a sportbike is overkill, then so is every motorcycle. We should all be riding little scooters to work.

      • Piglet2010

        Yep. I ride WFO to work on my Elite 110. :)

      • CaptainQueeg

        “but if a sportbike is overkill, then so is every motorcycle.”

        …come on, dude. From one motorcycling liberal to another, that’s nonsense.

  • Heather Qotw

    Needless posturing I observe: Some Harley riders (not all – not trying to bash anyone here) won’t acknowledge other riders if they’re not on a Harley and sometimes vice-versa. Brand snobbery – geesh! And although mentioned by others, what about the poor scooter riders? I mean, come on! Two wheels & motor is two wheels & motor! It’s the same risks. Sometimes it’s the same costs, without the shifting. That’s the biggie difference, and it doesn’t matter to me. I laugh when I pull up to our local restaurant on my 2008 ZX14, my husband on my old KLR650, and my bro-in-law (6’2″) riding a 1959 170-cc VESPA that he restored. Talk about a rag-rag group – and we all get snubbed by the black-vested riders club that shows up sometimes…

    Also, how about the big posturing I see all the time? A woman on a large sportbike. I’ve had Harley riders approach me while in gear, but as soon as the helmet comes off and jacket opens – so gender is clear, they’ll literally spin around… but it’s handy for the motorcycle cops. Since gluing cat ears & tail to my helmet, I haven’t been followed around across town ONCE. So ladies, if you want less visibility to the highway patrol, rock your girliness!

    PS – Chicken strips… PSH. It was stated nicely in this article. If you’re a daily-driver, chicken strips are just fine . . . particularly if you’re still alive and well. :-)

    • Piglet2010

      I have lynx ears on a helmet, and had a few guys on Harleys giving me the eye when I stopped for gas. When I took the lid off and it became obvious I was *not* a woman, they looked embarrassed and slunk off.

  • Thomas Whitener

    woo! Revit Jacket, Alpinestars gloves, and (weird italian brand no one has ever heard of) kevlar jeans ftw!

  • FalloutNL

    Funny that you guys would post a pic of an 1100EVO to go with the big bike derision: its relatively modest (aircooled) +- 100hp output and focus on torque is actually rather sensible and street friendly.

    • Braden

      Glad you caught it, I know I would have thought the same in your position. I’m realizing I can’t get lazy with my photography around you guys.

  • Amateur Person

    “More sportbike riders than not lack the necessary skill to use the advantages provided by a liter class bike.”

    Isn’t the primary advantage of a liter bike that it has a really giant engine, and thus, the only skill required to use it is the ability to open the throttle? In straightaways, at least, anyone can do that.

    That’s not to say that normal riders need a literbike, and they certainly can’t ride it 1/10th as well as professional racers, but it’s not like they’re fundamentally incapable of using anything it has to offer. In my experience, literbikes are actually easier to ride, because there’s so much power you don’t need to shift as much. Got yourself in a hairy corner? Throttle it out, and sort out the gears later.

    It’s like any other professional gear. A newbie with a professional camera and lens can take really sharp photos (of poorly chosen and composed subjects). A newbie with a professional computer workstation can do things really fast (like launching the Twitter app to type 140 characters). A newbie with a professional grade oven will be able to heat their food more quickly and evenly (even if it’s just a frozen pizza).

    We think it’s money wasted because they’re not doing things that absolutely require it, like the professionals these things were designed for, but it’s not like they get no value out of it at all, like putting 98 octane in a Ninja 250.

    • whyioughta

      stop making sense please
      that is absolutely verboten here

  • enzomedici

    I won’t buy another motorcycle that doesn’t have traction control and ABS.

    • SoundsRightToMe

      Evey bike I’ve ever owned had TC and ABS. Especially when I was riding them.

      • Davidabl2

        Right. Manual TC ABS. And manual power steering…

        • CaptainQueeg

          nothing wrong with that, bub.

  • Greg

    yup!

  • Kev

    The oil one got a hearty laugh outta me, because my GOD is it true. Just look up the word “synthetic” on ADVRider and have hours of amusement at people’s misplaced rage!

  • http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCuRhxMFhNW3tM1aSApL3qg/videos?view_as=public WillRide

    As a dirt biker, riding a Honda CRF230F for about 13+ years, I often hear newer/less experienced riders saying “that unless its a newer 250+cc four stroke or similar cc two stroke, it just isn’t capable or legitimate enough for real riding.” Enduro riding has many advantages brought by personally specified lightness, manageable power, and etc. Its how someone learns and develops best for them, not anyone else. It seems like the power boasting is present in both street and dirt riding.

  • Kimberly

    This guy’s vocabulary is ridiculously sexy.

  • DucMan

    Carbon Fiber–A.K.A.—”Ducati Chrome”

  • Justin Cole

    Word of the day… cacoethes

  • Piglet2010

    I would not hesitate to do a cross-country trip on my Deauville – unless you have an anti-cop cloaking device or are riding two-up in the mountains, you really do not need anything more.

    For “adventure” touring, for anything rougher than graded dirt, I would sacrifice freeway performance and use something like a Yamaha WR250R or Suzuki DR-Z400s – I want something light enough I can fall under it without serious injury or being trapped.

    • SoundsRightToMe

      hey
      I’ll ride cross-country with you any day
      you can ride your Deauville
      I’ll rent a C7 ‘Vette

      let’s go
      any day of the week, just let me know
      http://www.globalexoticcarrentals.com/corvettec7stingray-phoenix.php

      3500 miles from Phoenix to Toronto
      any day of the week you let me know
      I’ll have it trucked back to Phoenix, you can ride back in the truck :)

      I’d pay $3k for that experience

      • Piglet2010

        You are both rude and stupid.

        • Send Margaritas

          “You are both rude and stupid.”Whoa…look at the pothead calling the kettle black.

          • Piglet2010

            So you support on-line stalking?

            • Send Margaritas

              Your anti-psychotic meds are wearing off, Piglet. I’ll leave you to making friends and preaching that the key criteria for a sport touring motorcycle is:“I want something light enough I can fall under it without serious injury or being trapped.” lol!

              • Piglet2010

                When someone with a Disqus account with less than 10 comments and no votes up or down (indicating it is a new account) comments on a couple of dozen posts of mine on months old threads all at once, that indicates stalking behavior.

                And this has been happening consistently for the last couple of weeks, with each new account have a similar type name and a similar writing style (I do not know, but presume someone a RideApart has been banning this same person, who then nym-shifts and comes back).

                And the quoted comment refers to riding off-road, where if you have not fallen with a motorcycle ending up on top of you, you have not been doing it long. Lie down in the grass and have someone lower both a Yamaha Super Ténéré and a WR250R onto one of your legs, and tell us you do not notice the difference in ease of pushing the bike off.

  • rep

    Also referring to anything under 60 HP as “underpowered” – What it really means is that the person doesn’t know how to ride a slow bike fast.

    • whyioughta

      …right, just like riding a 250 means you’re a Moto2 racer.

      Nobody knows how to ride a slow bike fast. They are slow. It can’t be done.

    • Piglet2010

      My over-weight Honda Deauville with about 65-hp/55-rwhp will run a quarter-mile in under 14 seconds – faster than 99% of the cages out there.

      • CommonSenseOnWheels

        …right, (smacks forehead) I forgot, the entire time we’ve been talking about racing “the cagers out there”.

        Honestly I think that God put you on earth to dumb-down every conversation that you stumble into.

  • Tanshanomi

    I started riding bikes at 17. Thirty-two years and twenty-four motorcycles later, I bought a Can-Am Spyder…and was promptly informed by numerous acquaintances that riding a three-wheeler indicates that I’m not a “real” motorcyclist.

  • whyioughta

    yep it’s an old adage that what is unbelievably complicated to some is easy to others

  • whyioughta

    anyway
    Yet another article that just goes to show that people who say that you can’t do something are not the kind of people that you should turn to advice on how to do it.

    • mjc_iv

      Which things does the author say you can’t do?

      • CommonSenseOnWheels

        why don’t you ask him to explain instead of getting a 3rd-person opinion?
        better yet, read the bloody article

  • Ben B

    Pretty much agreed. If I had the money I’d like a brand new bike with all the technological benefits as well as an older one that I can actually work on myself. Even then I’d probably enjoy adding a few more modern bits, such as better suspension, to the older bike.

  • CaptainQueeg

    …and the more that you *are* your own mechanic, the less work that you actually do, that actually pays for your bike, parts, insurance, gas etc. That’s why motorcycle mechanics charge by the hour.

  • Braden

    They’re actually cast, not forged, but I think I see your point.

  • HatersWillHate

    Well I guess that this will be deleted within the next 24 hrs as “haters will hate” but for now let’s attempt to inject some objective data into this discussion.

    Amazingly back in 2011 the intrepid journalists at motorcycle-usa.com did actually test 600s and literbikes from a wide range of mfgs on the same track with the same riders, within the same timeframe. They did not publish all the same data for each bike (the 600 test showed a little more data) and they did not quite use
    the same tires (the 600s got Dunlop racing slicks, the literbikes only got Micheline Power Pures).

    Anyone want to take bets on what the tests showed?

    Ok I know you’re holding your breath in suspense so let me just post some summary data.

    If you want to see the test results and writeups just go to their site and search on their 2011 supersport and superbike shootouts.

    Let the BS begin.

    BTW the Honda CBR1000RR results are in red because it won the superpole that year.
    And I edited the superpole chart to remove the results from mfgs who do not sell 600 supersports.
    No point in talking about the S1000RR and KTM RC8 laptimes when there aren’t other bikes from those mfgs in the test to compare them to.
    Same for the Triumph 675R. Of course you could say that’s because nothing more is needed…but that’s the wonderful thing about data.

    It makes for an excellent leaping-off point for all the BS artists out there.

    Which is why every once in a while you really have to inject some hard data into any discussion.
    A concept that this site avoids like the plague. Which is why this post will probably not be up for long.

    • Braden

      I gotta be honest dude, I’m completely baffled as to the point you’re trying to get across or how it relates to the article. Looks like your data shows the 600s and 1000s bring results in that are very close to one another. The article discusses different aspects of motorcycling that some people take way too seriously and actually go as far as to unfairly judge others on. It’s strictly a satirical piece on perception and cultural judgement.

      What argument are you trying to make? I’m not even sure if you’re for or against whatever it is you’re talking about.

      • TheTruthIsOutThere

        It shows that an average amateur is much faster on a literbike than on a 600 even on a tight track, even giving the 600s a tire advantage. Even without rider-aids, as the Gixxer, Honda and Yamaha tested (the R1 didn’t have TC in 2011, I’m not sure the 10R had it then either) do not have them. On the other hand an expert rider is slightly faster on a 600 in the same conditions.

        It’s just amazing that you put up actual data on this site and it instantly gets deleted.
        Anything that interferes with the Prevailing Wisdom as determined by the All-Knowing writers and mods here, “boom” goodbye

  • ‘Mike Smith

    The only reason I bought a liter bike was because I got an incredible deal, for around the same price as an equivalent 600. It is more bike than I need, but damn it’s fun!

  • charlie

    Being a noob, I’ve always heard (even before I started riding) from other riders that if you’re not spending top dollar on name brand gear (Dainese, Alpinestars, etc.), then you’re not serious about riding. Um… what? The funniest thing I’ve seen was when I used to drive by a local Checkers restaurant on bike night. The majority were Hayabusa enthusiasts. Full leathers, boots, gloves but the helmet was hanging off the tail.